AIBU that the system is leaving a whole group of children behind.

[Sendhelp20]

I know this will be down to location to but wow my mind is blown. We are in the middle of being allocated a secondary school for DD11 and there doesn’t seem to be a school that exists for her 🤣( I should not laugh but If I don’t I will cry )

she is academic although not advance and has gaps in her learning which does mean she is mildly behind this is due to missing 3 and half years of primary school.

all the schools consulted in a radius of 1 hour of our home which including

Sen schools - with different specialities
mainstream schools with units
and mainstreams have all come back
they can’t meet her needs

some she is “too academic “
others she is too complex

so now they are suggesting a mixture of home tutoring / online education but she wants to go to school 😭

where are the children who are inbetween going 😭😭

People were certainly getting LEA funding for Kings when my son went a few years ago

You say the schools don’t think they can meet needs, but what do you think? Unless the school is wholly independent, you don’t need them to agree to being named. There are only limited circumstances the LA can lawfully refuse to name your preference.

Unless the school is independent, the LA must name your preference unless:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
The bar to prove this is higher than many LAs and schools admit.

1:1 can be provided in secondary but it would need to be detailed, specified and quantified in F. Ignore any secondary telling you they can’t offer 1:1. They can and they do. A consistent 1:1 (or would need to be 2 if it covers lunch and breaks) is possible, but, again, would need to be in the EHCP.

DD’s EHCP sounds like it needs improving. She needs more therapies. Independent assessments are a world away from LA reports.

Your DD is not LAs problem. She is your responsibility. Get as much support as possible from LA/school, if they can’t offer the support she needs, you need to step up and do the best you can for her.

Actually, the law says otherwise. The LA is responsible for the SEP in F of the EHCP under s42 CFA 2014. They are also responsible for ensuring CSA DC receive a suitable full-time education under s19 of the Education Act 1996.

EOTAS/EOTIS can be far more than a tutor a few hours a week or online schooling. That would be a very poor package on its own. And parents cannot be compelled to organise, facilitate or deliver the provision. The LA must arrange provision for that. However, EOTAS/EOTIS would only legally be possible when it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school.

Online schools don’t have to be registered to be funded via an EHCP.

I don't think it's right that your DD is slipping through the cracks, but I don't think that it's representative of a "whole group". She sounds like a unique case.

Yes totally, actually very similar provision to DS on transition to secondary, except DS had more direct access to SLT. How many hours one to one are specified and have they specified the size and purpose of the group work? What are the profile of other children within the group and do the schools you look at have students with those profiles. If you are reliant on this one to one it needs to be cast iron in the EHCP.

You need to be clear in your mind what the outcome you are looking at school/education are and what the actual barriers to that are. I have the following questions or stuff I think you ought to think carefully about

What actual physical assistive stuff is specified? By this i would expect to see seating adaptations, laptop, touch typing lessons if appropriate or exploration of speech to text technology, writing slopes, pen grips within you ehcp. If you visit schools (any schools) make sure you see a SN/nuture/intervention class and look at how many interventions are in use within that class. (I can tell you in mainstream it will be few if any, the kids don't like being different /bullying and so tend to drop these physical interventions asap). Be clear within a school environment who is responsible for the transport of equipment between classrooms. This should be in the EHCP

Ask any school you attend whether they are able to continue one to one support during exam times. Get this response in writing.

When your child is out of school are they able to work? When they are in hospital is it intensive hospital interventions and recovery or is it more monitoring? Is it resting but actually they can work on a laptop?

If you look at any school, Do the school post online access to all their lessons? Would you be reliant on individual teachers emailing you work?

Did they test DD for dyscalcula? I'm assuming they did dyslexia.

How important is socialising actually to your child? We tend to tell parents of ASD children that they should be in school to "be with their friends" and "develop socialisation skills", only to find the ASD do not have the social skills to manage a mainstream environmental and end up isolated or burn out anyway. There often is value in asd between separating socialisation and academics. So allowing a child to learn without having to worry about socialisation but choose the socialisation opportunities that they want. Personally im of the opinion You do not teach ASD kids to socialise, generally it's healthier (either education at home or school) to provide social opportunities that allow and accommodate "parallel play".

Im going to be really harsh with this one. Do you actually have a model of what a successful education for your child looks like? Because I question if you actually do. If you class a successful education as your child being happy and enjoying school then I'm guessing that may be primary school. However at a 60% attendance with significant lost learning i would argue that model of education has already failed. Be really honest about what is working and what isn't. Be clear about your goals for your child's education. make sure any provision put in place actually reflects that.

If your child has pacing and fatigue can they fit that level of intervention in within the context of general fatigue of a school day? If you were to look at the provision within the EHCP could you realistically do it all? What provision is likely to make the most difference to your child in three different areas health, happiness and education.

Be aware that wellness to attend and absence are the hardest obstacles to mitigate against. You can have the most fantastic provision in the EHCP, but if it can't realistically be delivered because you child is to tired or too ill, it isn't worth the paper it's written on. The provision MUST reflect your child's challenges

And more:

If you are looking at independent, orindeed any SEN schools check the following:

How full the school currently is, what percentage of tribunals are they/their prospective parents winning. Do they have a definite profile, do they have enough children winning tribunals to maintain that profile.

That if the school already has the year group your child would be entering that you see it. Are the needs of the children within that class compatible with your child, are they compatible with each other. At any classes you see make sure you go through the same thought process.

As with mainstream when you see classes has nearly every child got access to the appropriate physical aids (writing slopes, laptop etc)

If a school is saying they are unable to meet need you have to be pretty confident to say otherwise.

SEN education requires a lot of goodwill on everyone's part, if you've forced a school to take you child in the first place, your already on the back foot building those relationships.

Please never regret getting your child and EHCP. Some of the unhappiest, least successful kids in know are the ones in mainstream who need ECHP support but don't have it.

I do joke the skill isn't what you get in the EHCP, it's what is still provided one or two years down the line. Inevitably there is compromise.

This isn’t the case. Schools often raise concerns when objected that don’t actually meet the legal threshold set out in law. It isn’t always about the individual child. It is far more nuanced than that. Just because a child was placed in a school when the setting raised concerns during the consultation period doesn’t mean the parents can’t have a positive relationship with the school. Again, it is far more nuanced than that.

Hmmmm.....

Am I projecting as a parent of a child with SN and a significant EHCP who has attended mainstream (second and pimary) with one to one support, or as a mainstream teacher of children with EHCPs and SN or as a one to one tutor of children with SN?

But actually to be frank I'm not sure your assessment of the situation is correct

To be very harsh to the OPs child, you have a child with a 60% attendance due to medical need that has demonstrated an failure to thrive academically within a mainstream classroom with one to one support.

At a point in their education when primary often does work for SN and one to ones are a frequently successful intervention.

What is going to happen differently to ensure success of an modal of education that is already failing and is known to be much less successful at secondary than primary.

One to one support as an intervention is not an intervention for physical wellness to attend schools.

That is quite aside from the fact that one to one is very rarely, if ever, implemented consistently.

You have to question whether that's ideal though, which is why it often doesn't make it onto the wording of an EHCP.

Yes of course. I’m saying in theory it could be continued.

You can get EHCP funded by King’s Interhigh and Apricot Learning I’m pretty sure. My DS went to Interhigh and if he had stayed, we would have had his funding covered by the LA.

I'm not talking legalities here. I'm talking about building strong parent school relationships.

And yes it is nuanced. Speaking as someone who got their child into a school that was initially very reluctant to take them. We worked hard to evidence and ensure the support was there thrrough the EHCP in order to reassure the school. Had they continued that reluctance into the actual tribunal I would have paused for thought. So I'm absolutely not saying it's impossible having done it, but I do think it requires careful consideration

I didn’t just comment on the legalities. If you re-read the post you will see I posted “Just because a child was placed in a school when the setting raised concerns during the consultation period doesn’t mean the parents can’t have a positive relationship with the school.” As someone who does this day in, day out I stand by what I posted. Feel free to disagree.

I didn’t say it didn’t require careful consideration. If you read my original post you would see in the first paragraph I asked the OP what she thought.

Academy 21/interhigh was a agreed option funded by the LEA for transition to secondary 6 years back, although it was less well known then. It's a far more common intervention nowadays

which is why it often doesn't make it onto the wording of an EHCP.

This is a very generous view. LAs often fail to detail, specify and quantify 1:1 in order to save money and because it is easier for the LA/school rather than what is actually legally reasonably required. Same applies for adding wording to F for a consistent 1:1.

If your child is capable verbally do look at voice to text input technology. If you have word there's a basic system built in you can have a go it (evidence value and success) but specialist software is better. Also ask for touch typing training in any package of support (nessy fingers is fab)

Write to your MP. It doesn’t matter what the cohort is like, as teachers they need to adapt to the needs of each child. Surely in an SEN school the needs are vast and varied.

Unfortunately this beauty won't make it any better,

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3909

Yes it very much matters what the cohort is like.

On transition to secondary we looked, with agreement of LEA, at a local independently SEN school. One of the child in my DS' potential class we knew outside school and was a suitable peer, one was sitting in a corner screaming (not a suitable peer). The adults in the room were already struggling to balance very incompatible SEN. In fact it was very clear the school was transitioning from a high functioning physical disability with some ASD to a far more severe ASD peer group as that was who was winning the tribunals against the local ASD school. The school almost folded a few years later. Another slightly different more academic independent SEN school i know had a similar identity wobble and started taking some kids with ASD ( they still quite correctly turned down my child). They actually clamped down on its intake and is currently thriving.

At a local mainstream it have previous taught at had a highly anxious, selectively mute, auditory sensitive child in the same class as the adhd child who was incapable of sitting still and shouted regularly as an auditory stim. Needless to say the child was not thriving. The school prided itself on its inclusive approach and ability to adapt to varied SEN. (As long as they don't need different school shoes....)

The best schools for SEN are the ones that know their speciality really really well and have enough numbers going through to stick to that speciality.

Varied special educational needs does not mean compatible. A teacher cannot adapt if fundamentally the kids needs are contradictory. Cohort is so so important

OP, I think it was you on a previous thread who said there was one mainstream who had offered a place? Is that place now not available? I would seriously consider investigating mainstream options with 1:1 in place- as others have said, in secondary schools it is often a team of 2-3 known TAs who will support a child in specific areas. Personally, I think this is better than just 1 one to one, because it accounts for staff absence and people moving on and so on. It wouldn't just be random people doing personal care etc, and I can see why that would be a concern. TAs in secondary can absolute scribe for students, and she could have a scribe and additional time in all her exams.

You would probably describe the school where I work as large and full of stairs, but we do also have lifts in every building, step free access across site, accessible toilets on every floor, we try hard to think about timetabling for students to ensure it's straightforward for them, we also have a fully accessible sensory space open to certain students throughout the day. We do have children who can't walk at all including some with significant care needs, and they seem to manage to navigate the site.

I would at least consider visiting mainstream schools, and seeing what they can offer? Could she be able to learn to type- maybe not on a standard keyboard but perhaps using assistive technology?

I do think you'll have to look at the schools, find the one you think is the best fit, and push for that one. If she wants to go to school, she should be able to, and the LA I believe can force placement and override the school.

her EHCP is very good, her 1-1 are quantified. I am happy with the EHCP.

in terms of education I know what a successful education is and unfortunately nothing in the EHCP or schooling system is going to improve her attendance and that’s not anyone’s fault.
what has worked is that she has had the right support this whole time and has been able ro maintain confidence in school, going when she can and keeping up with her peers academically.
her wellbeing and happiness is far more valuable than her grades but that is not her issue.

Hmmmm...

What does your Ed psych say about placement, barriers to learning and did they complete any cognitive testing?

My point is your child's primary area of need, at least superficially, seems to be about wellness to learn and non of the provision you have mentioned addresses that.

You say you know what a successful education looks like but I'm thinking much more broadly.

If academic is the main criteria it a simple fact No child with 50-60% attendance will keep up with their peers in either mainstream or SEN. With the best will in the world and a school that puts into place everything you are going to be working really hard to catch up anything missed. At 80%ish DS was struggling. There's a lot of people arguing ma can succeed, the best school in the world cannot succed if you are not there.

Yes you can do things to improve attendance which frankly is why the LEA are talking about Eotas.

The reason they are suggesting online is it because it offers a continuity of education whether your child can physically make it to school or not, is at home or hospital. Same tutors and continuity of routine which has huge benefits. That is assuming your child is physically still able to access schooling when ill and that that any time in hospital not to intense.

Tutors will work better if actually you have a child that has to drop everything when ill. Your child isn't missing learning because the tutor picks up the pieces whenever your child is ready again.
They can fit around extensive therapy provision and because they are working one-on-one with your child can tailor the learning to your child's level.

In both cases any assistive interventions (seating, laptop, touch typing, writing slope, wheelchiar) can be put into place without comment, therefore helping your child to access academics with less fatigue. Which you haven't mentioned l, explicitly but I would expect are in there as you mentioned equipment.

So what is a successful education? Is it one in which your child has best chance of keeping up with her peers? Is it one where they see their friends everyday? These are not necessarily the same education FOR YOUR CHILD.

Do bear in mind primary and secondary are very very different. What works in primary is not the same as what works in secondary. We know one to one is a fantastic intervention at primary.

I do worry in your case absence is actually the more superficial problem that maybe is masking other issues. It's easy with LEA professionals that they often fit what provision they can provide to the child as opposed to looking child out. In doing so they can spectacularly miss stuff.

Do consider if you can afford it getting private Ed psych and, in your case, OT. If the Ed psych is actually decent and does contain cognitive testing + dyslexia + dyscalcula, then is more economic just to get OT. Of course you are probably impossible to do this before transition now but if I was you I'd definitely consider it. If your reports are GOSH / evelina or another such centre of excellence, or the LEA has engaged private companies because the nhs therapy service lists are too great in your area, there's a higher chance that the above is tosh.

she has a updated ed Pysch, has a very good OT and SLT.

yes her attendance is a problem but no adaptions in school is going to unfortunately make that better she has a life threatening disease which unfortunately needs treatments.

in terms of her EHCP there is a lot of cognitive and learning issues in there, including her speech and development delays, that she can’t hands a lot of noise / sensory issues. Her literacy skills.
her commincation skills, the need for a scriber and equipment such as specialist chair / laptop etc

In fact actually
her wellbeing and happiness is far more valuable than her grades but that is not her issue.

Ok so without labouring the point to much, was the SEN school that your DD liked the one with the too low peer group?

If actually the absence rate masks greater challenges to academic performance that are currently apparent it may actually be that the cohort is not incompatible and the best option for your DDs happiness is actually maybe that one, not the best one academically but the one that makes your child happiest. Then you would want to be approaching the school, getting eyes on the peer group itself (too low cohort can be Byford for severe ASD) and asking the principal what it was about the EHCP that was a problem.

But so so much is dependent on how much testing has been possible with your DD and they skill set of the LEA's chosen ed psych