To be a teacher who is now looking for a career as a barrister or a solicitor

[Amammai]

I’m posting from a point of the complete unknown.

Would a move from being a primary school teacher (18 years experience) to a solicitor or barrister be a completely ridiculous move?

An Instagram recruitment post from the CPS caught my eye and I’m now down a rabbit hole of research. Something about these roles has really caught my interest and I think this could be a potential career pathway for me.

There are many aspects of teaching I still love but after 18 years, I am questioning how much more I can give to the role.

So, has anyone trained as a solicitor or barrister at a ‘later point’ (I’m 40!) Would the move from teaching be doable? Am I kidding myself I could actually do it??

@FrodoBiggins Why suggest the criminal bar? Everyone knows it’s on its knees. A teacher would be better off looking at family where there is money.

I didn't suggest anything. OP said she wanted to join the CPS.

Personally, doing a criminal mini pupillage back the late 2000s was v useful for me precisely because (even then) I realised it was not a job I would ever want! But I have friends, @including quite junior, who love it. I think a no obligations mini or work experience is a great way to decide if it's worth trying out for. Same with other areas (eg family) too if that appeals.

Earnings in many areas are not that high. Gross income can look good but you could be paying up to 40% in costs - practising cert, insurance, rent, clerking fees, research materials, etc. The Bar Council publishes reports on this to give you an idea. Bear in mind that a junior is anyone who isn't a silk.

www.barcouncil.org.uk/resource/barrister-earnings-by-sex-and-practice-area-november-2023.html

Most chambers have a set % fee. It’s not 40%. However barristers pay for travel and overnight costs. You cannot plan much in advance as cases come out at short notice.

Mini pupillages are competitive. You might get to try something out but they usually want to see commitment these days by competitive application and there are deadlines, like a job.

It absolutely can be 40%. That's not just based on my own experience (I am a barrister) but it is also stated in the Bar Council report I linked (page 5, under Gross Earnings).

@wigjockey I guess for some it might be but DD is a barrister and her outgoings are nowhere near that. She pays 20% to chambers and has other expenses but not 40% and pays tax on substantial earnings

I was extremely interested to look at earnings data too. Hers appears very high for age! I’m rather pleased for her. Less good is the position of women and earnings overall but DD is bucking that trend too. So I guess it’s like most careers, you make your own luck. Being self employed galvanizes some! The CPS would be well below I would guess.

However for the purpose of this thread, overall a teacher who really wants to be a barrister should consider what area of law and cost of training as well as likelihood of getting pupillage. Go into an area of law you know something about and play to your strengths. So commercial is probably out. The most likely to succeed will get a healthy financial scholarship from the Inn of Court they join and all of this should be investigated.

Good for her. It sounds like she is doing well.

Every chambers has a slightly different fee structure. Some just apply a %, others have a fixed rent element. If you are just starting out or have a bad year, a fixed element can obviously mean you are paying a higher percentage of your fees to chambers. And then you have other expenses on top.

I agree with your last paragraph. The Inn scholarships look good on your CV as well as providing financial assistance.

Just starting out and not on fixed % would be very difficult. It’s always difficult after pupillage anyway.

I work closely with the CPS and I would NOT go and do it having experienced working with them as a partner agency - I do not rate them at all.

Chambers' contributions vary - some are % of all fee income, some are flat fee, some are a mixture of both. DD's 20% is highish but not outside the normal range, as I understand it. On top of that are insurance, practising certificate, IT costs, travel to court, accommodation if overnights, CPD, all sorts of things.

@LondonLawyer Thats a big jump to 40% though. It’s surely only that if you are earning at the lower end? DD rarely does overnights. Long criminal trials are different and it wholly depends on where you practice, courts you go to and what solicitors use you. It’s not a standard set of costs. Also Chambers cover some costs.

My friend works for the CPS . Over 30 days' holiday, plus flexi, work from home three days a week unless at court. Good policies regarding sickness, disabilities, caring needs etc.

As in any job, a good manager can make the world of difference, and a bad one not so much.

Salaries are solid but not startling as far as I can tell. As with anything you would start on the very routine stuff but she played her cards right and now has a very interesting, if heavy, caseload.

Varies hugely. The costs of insurance and practising certificate go up as fee income goes up. Insurance also varies MASSIVELY depending on the area of law and limit on cover. Some barristers will travel a lot more, at greater expense, than others.

@LondonLawyer Yes. I do see all of that. Fixed tenancy costs are more expensive for those at the baby junior end though. A % is fairer.

Bloody hell. I'm in a huge (mixed) set and our rent is about 17%. 40% is insane and not something I'd ever heard of.

(I obviously don't include practicing cert, insurance, tax, travel, etc in that).

@HausofHolbein DD hasn’t either but - the newly qualified end of the criminal bar make very little. So that’s probably where the figure comes from.

I think the 40% was including all of that, though, in the links someone posted, not just rent. Rents I've heard of are 14-22% ish (I'm no expert on "Chambers' rents: a comparative study")

Yes the Bar Council report I posted was making the point that 20-40% needs to come off gross earnings to understand what someone is actually making in income (before tax). So that would include rent, clerking fees, insurance, practising cert, research materials, etc. My accountant (who specialises in barrister accounts) tells me around 25% is typical at the commercial bar. Other areas of practice will differ.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but law school is incredibly expensive unless you get sponsored through it by a law firm or chambers (and I’m not actually sure whether chambers typically offer sponsorship).

Most of my teacher friends think that every other profession is paid a lot more money for doing a lot less work and under less pressure than teaching. - it simply isn't true. In a few cases maybe, but not across tbe board. Be very clear about that.
Whilst I know that teachers spend time working during the holidays, they aren't doing 12-14 hour days throughout the holidays - don't underestimate the value of the break from the relentless pressure for many more weeks that you would in another high pressure profession.

I think there’s a lot of truth in this. I’m not suggesting that teaching is an easy job, it’s definitely not. But I have noticed that in the teaching profession there seems to be a victimhood culture. A lot of jobs are extremely high-pressured and stressful, and come with only 4 or 5 weeks’ annual leave, which you may or may not be able to take at a time to suit you (I’m currently battling with my employer over when I can take my annual leave this year). Lots of people aren’t guaranteed any holiday round Christmas - or even holiday on Christmas Day if you work for the emergency services or the NHS for example.

@LavenderHaze19 I too believe many teachers think they work more than anyone else. Law is long hours and if you are a barrister and self employed, no fees if you don’t work!

Chambers of barristers don’t sponsor anyone. The Inns of Court offer competitive scholarships towards course fees and some are means tested and some are not. If you are a really good candidate, you might get a very large scholarship.

Barrister maybe, but not a solicitor doing legal aid family work. I've done both and there's not much difference in salary.

DD does no legal aid. Once in a blue moon maybe when it doesn’t go elsewhere. It’s not her area of practice. I do know she’s done some high profile cases pro bono for cv! Legal aid will not pay the mortgage.

Not your question but someone I manage was a solicitor for a long time. Re trained as a primary school teacher and did that for a few years. Returned to work as a solicitor who I now manage. I believe the move to return to work as a solicitor was largely money driven. So I guess it depends what you would like to do and achieve from it.

You are never too old to pursue your dreams if it really is your dream.

Perhaps try some volunteering? And / or pick up a distance learning course with CILEx law school - they aren’t too expensive and are reputable.

If the OP wants to be a barrister, the training centres have careers advice and people can start networking. The Inns of court are there for you too. Qualifications are only part of the cv and what’s needed. DD volunteered at a cab amongst other things. It’s a case of building up a worthwhile cv if you don’t have Oxbridge law degree.