To be a teacher who is now looking for a career as a barrister or a solicitor

[Amammai]

I’m posting from a point of the complete unknown.

Would a move from being a primary school teacher (18 years experience) to a solicitor or barrister be a completely ridiculous move?

An Instagram recruitment post from the CPS caught my eye and I’m now down a rabbit hole of research. Something about these roles has really caught my interest and I think this could be a potential career pathway for me.

There are many aspects of teaching I still love but after 18 years, I am questioning how much more I can give to the role.

So, has anyone trained as a solicitor or barrister at a ‘later point’ (I’m 40!) Would the move from teaching be doable? Am I kidding myself I could actually do it??

This is a really interesting perspective. I have a colleague who sits on the panels for EHCP applications and I know how fraught with contention this can be. I wish there were the funding to allow all families to be adequately heard!

I went the other way. Started out doing a degree, the CPE and LPC to become a solicitor. Found getting a training contract extremely difficult and it was very much a 'jobs for the boys', 'not what you know more who you know' kind of environment. Hated it.
Trained to be a teacher and loved it. Had to leave due to family circumstances not the workload etc that I know can be horrific now. I'd still rather be teaching than be any kind of legal professional.
*that's me though! You might find it really rewarding and exactly what you should be doing. Do a bit more research. One of the women who I worked with was on her training contract at 46.

I don't know anyone who's moved from teaching to law, but I do know several who've moved from law to teaching!

Thank you. It sounds like getting a placement can be a real issue. Something I hadn’t considered!

Based on you being in education for 18 years I’m assuming you are top of the salary scale, possibly with TLRs attached.
The drop in pay while you study and start a new profession is going to hit you hard - can you afford that ?

I’m not a lawyer but I did move from a PGCE into business and now work in a “big” job in finance in the City. It’s do-able. You’ll have loads of transferable skills.

Holidays would be a big disadvantage though. Am always jealous of my teacher friends about those - although not about anything else to do with teaching tbh, it’s so bluddy hard.

The GDL (law conversion) would cost you around £10k (could be up to £12k) and can be done 1 yr full time or 2 years part time. I did the GDL part time while working full time in a law firm, it was fine but I already had a law degree (long story) so I had a head start and my firm paid.

I don’t think the debt you’d need to take on to meet the CPS’s requirements plus the time it would take would be a good investment.

Interestingly, out of everyone you speak to who's been lucky enough to leave teaching (1000s on the leave teaching and thrive fb group) no-one, and I really do mean no-one, misses the holidays. Teaching doesn't mean only 39 weeks of work, it just means 52 weeks of work condensed into 39 weeks.

The whole system needs a re-haul. But meanwhile, I want to help other families get their children their legal rights to a suitable education. I'm just weighing up the best entry routes too.

We could possibly stretch to it but it would impact our family ‘extras’ so we would need to really look ag calculations.

I feel I DO have transferable skills, they are just Dulles under all the mountains are teaching stuff. I find it really hard to see myself as anything other than a teacher, which is why this job advert taking my interest was a pleasant surprise!

This is true. As much as the holidays are a blessing, the constraints of when they are and the exhaustion of getting to each one really isn’t sustainable!

I think this would be very rewarding, The issue with this line of work is that it is heard by tribunals, so win or lose no costs are awarded.

That means not many law firms are going to touch it without being paid privately. And sadly not many parents can afford it.

There are some firms doing this kind of work, but they are few and far between.

I absolutely agree with you @DoggoQuestions. I have never worked so hard, been so stressed for so little reward and recognition than when I did my PGCE and NQT year. Then I sodded off back to business and hard and stressful it may be but nothing compared to how hard it was teaching. And the rewards bear no comparison. I earn 3 times as much now for the same skills really. I’m not meaning to boast here. I take my hat off to teachers, I really do.

And I say to the OP much as I say to several good friends of mine who work so hard and sometimes get treated outrageously in their teaching vocation - look wider than teaching. You’ve got loads of transferable skills (but don’t restrict your options to just law, think business and your transferable skills - training, business analyst etc).

And big up all the teachers 🙌. What would society do without your dedication, hard work and self sacrifice, we’d be buggered.

Barrister is very unlikely to be achievable at your age. It's a small and highly competitive field, chambers can pick the cream of the graduate/post-grad crop for pupilage.

Becoming a solicitor is achievable. But act fast.

I’m a solicitor of 20-odd years and I wouldn’t.

It’s mega-competitive and only corporate/commercial law pay better than teaching (especially when pension is taken into consideration). Training contracts are few and far between, and there is almost an unwritten rule that you have to work as a poorly-paid paralegal before getting a TC. There are literally thousands of grads with great academics chasing TC’s. And as a sector, it’s very vulnerable to being replaced by AI, especially at the junior end. Firms I use have already cut back on trainees for this reason.

I’ve had a great career, but wouldn’t do it again today.

If you go in to law (especially the junior end of the Bar), you'll be doing about 80 weeks worth condensed into 52.

Whatever you do, don't do it for the money or a better work life balance. You'll be working more evenings, more weekends, very little holiday. 80-100 hour weeks back to back without the prospect of a break, certainly if you are in crime. Then often it takes months, sometimes years to get paid.

If you do it, make sure you have rock solid childcare or a partner who can drop everything when you get sent to the opposite end of the country for a week at less than a day's notice. Or (as will happen more frequently), you get stuck somewhere an extra day, you can't make pick up because you are in court.

It's a great job for those with a passion for it as a vocation. But it's your life, not a job.

Btw, when I talk about workload, having a newborn was an absolute holiday to me because I was getting more sleep at night than I had done in my job.

I took work on every holiday, including honeymoon.

If you are finding teaching relentless (which it sounds like, saying it's difficult with the exhaustion of getting to each one) you'd be doing considerably more hours with much more stress and pressure and not chance of recuperating!

From memory of a relative becoming a barrister.

The fees for the Conversion course vary so City Uni charges approx. £13,590 in London but less £10,950 Exeter, Leeds etc.

The Bar Training Course fees range from approx. £12,640 to £20,220.

Not cheap but it is possible to get grants to cover these from the various Inns of Court. It is very competitive. If you have a first that's a good start. That's 2 years with no income or a low income at best.

You need to not just pass the courses but pass very well. So eg ideally an average of 80% in the Bar Course 12 exams (I think) will grade you 'Outstanding'.

You will need to volunteer at a law centre to get more experience while studying - maybe shadow a Judge etc.

You need to stand out from the crowd so maybe enter (and win) a law essay competition and / or a mooting competition.

You will have to do several mini pupillages in Chambers specialising in your chosen field where you will have the opportunity to see barristers at work.

I suggest you look up some of the Chambers near where you live and examine the qualifications and experience their pupils have. It will give you an idea of what the competition is that you are facing.

If you are one of the lucky few who get a pupillage offer, ( and you may have to apply for several years while working hopefully but in a lower law roll and still never get an offer ) Chambers will pay you varying amounts for the first six months when you shadow your trainer ie your Pupil Master ( used to be min. £12k I think ) and then usually guarantee you a similar minimum income when you are 'on your feet' earning money for the second six months. Some will pay you considerably more than this, £50K +.

You will have to have a lot of self belief for the Bar and a huge capacity for hard work, (lots of workaholics),a lot of travel to courts around your region requiring very early starts, excellent English and research skills and the ability to absorb stress. You are typically self employed (with irregular hours, last minute panics requiring sacrificing your weekends, working late into the night or very early mornings). No employee benefits whatsoever - no sick pay, no pension unless you arrange it yourself.

Earns well over £150k pa 13 years call ( not in commercial law where earnings are much higher or criminal ( often much lower)

(There are some employed posts though ie in the Civil Service or Solicitor firms maybe.)

I think if you're not sure between solicitor and barrister, you haven't done very much research at all! Sorry if that's harsh.

Do you want to be doing advocacy in court? Do you want to be drafting employment contracts all day long?
Do you want to be helping people with probate after a relative dies?

There's sooo much in law. I'd also caution about salary. People think lawyers earn loads but those at the top skew it. Realistically, once qualified (which if your degree isn't in law is 4 years full time study & training or 3 years if you have LLB) you'll be on about £40k as a solicitor. Then sloooowwwwly working your way up. There are huge firms in the city where you're earning £100k plus after qualification but the workload is usually INSANE (eg working 7am- 2am and sleeping at the office). These are also unbelievably competitive to get into so unless you have a 1st from Oxbridge, all A*s, speak 20 languages, are a diversity hire etc, your chances are slim!

I'm not trying to put you off! It's great! But I wouldn't do it for the money & I would look into what you actually want your day to day job to look like.

All families can be adequately heard. Everyone has the right to appeal and there is no need to have anyone represent you. The LAs act unlawfully, hoping that families don't realise that they can appeal.

Feel free to message me OP, only if you'd like to.

It's certainly entirely possible, and not that uncommon. Plenty of people do pupillage (barrister apprenticeship) or training contract (solicitor ditto) after 40. But it is going to be expensive, you'll need to do the conversion course (same for either), and then the vocational qualification (different for solicitors / barristers) and then the training contract or pupillage. You can do both those either full-time or part-time, it's a year each for the conversion course and vocational full-time, and two years for a training contract and a year for pupillage.

It would be a good idea to have some idea of what interests you - whether it is advocacy, advisory, etc. And an idea of what area(s) of law you find attractive. The second of those often varies or changes over time, though - I know plenty of people who did law at university absolutely convinced they wanted to do crime / family / employment law who ended up working (happily) in a different area.

Training contracts and becoming a solicitor has a huge variation, from the top city / magical circle firms (very high pay, incredibly stiff competition, brutal work hours) to law centres and High Street firms (much lower pay, less competitive, workload varies hugely). The higher-paid ones are mostly in the big cities, particularly in London.

Pupillage at the self-employed bar is also usually incredibly stiff competition and brutal workload, but the pay for pupillage varies significantly, mostly depending on the area(s) of law that the Chambers does. Most barristers are at the self-employed bar, about 14,500 at the moment, I think. There are also employed barristers, including some at the CPS, roughly 3,000. The self-employed bar is heavily concentrated in London; there are Chambers in other places, but it is a very London-centric profession. Hours are unpredictable and can be very long, and there's no holiday pay, maternity pay, sick pay or pensions.

A friend of mine started working in a solicitors office when she returned to work after a longish break for childcare - had previously been in a very different role.
When she was mid 30s, she stated studying to qualify as a legal exec, apprenticeship route, no break for full time study, qualified and progressed well.
She then took it a stage further and converted the qualification/did further study and qualified as a solicitor (this was a while ago, I'm not sure if the study paths are still the same)
Once qualified as a solicitor, she found it a lot harder to find work, at one point was earning less than she had as a legal exec.

All the people slagging op for not understanding the difference between rights of audience don't seem to realise that many barristers make their living writing opinions 🤣

For me the biggest issue would be going from senior and respected in field to knowing nothing x imminent age discrimination in recruitment territory. It can be done but you'd need to really want it and be a bit tough.