For keeping an order that I’ve received a refund for?

[Phallicfriday]

Long story short. Ordered DH a fairly expensive tech item for his birthday from large retailer. Item didn’t arrive and when I chased the retailer it was presumed lost and they sent a replacement. It was supposed to be on next day delivery but this didn’t materialize either. Week later I call again to be told the item was detained by customs and it would be returned to the retailer. They point blank refused to send another item and instead only offered me a refund. Feeling very frustrated as I still had no birthday gift, I reluctantly accepted and ordered a replacement on Amazon (which I haven’t received yet either). Since receiving the refund, both the ‘missing’ orders have turned up. I am overseas and so I imagine it would be a hassle/expense for them to arrange a courier to collect them for return? AIBU for just keeping quiet and keeping both? Appreciate that this is morally ambiguous and I am quite sure I will get lots of mumsnetters up in arms at my morally bankrupt thought processes but they are a large company and surely will have insurance to cover such losses? And who really gives a flying fuck if the insurance company are out of pocket a few hundred quid when they rob the living daylights out of us all? My only concern is if they can track / trace that they have been delivered and force me to return / repay? What would you do?

Amazon used to be incredible for this .
However, before Christmas I ordered a birthday card worth 5 euro . It did not arrive in time and Amazon sent me an email telling me to assume it was lost and request a refund .
I did .
A few days later the card turned up . I then received an email from Amazon telling me to return said card within 30 days or they would charge me !!!
The cheek of them when they initially didn't deliver the item AND told me to request a refund .
Wanted me to return the birthday card ( at my own cost ! ) .

Yeah I'd keep, if the company ever challenged just say it must have been stolen as not left with anyone

I also think it depends on the tech. If it's something like a laptop, phone or games console, the company might find out once it's connected to WiFi.

How is this "morally ambiguous", OP??
It really isn't.

It is stealing.

Same as if you found a wallet with cash & ID in it.
You are supposed to either hand the whole lot in to the local police station or get it back to its rightful owner.

If you pocket the cash and stick the rest in the bin then the law in the uk considers you a theft because you are preventing the rightful owner receiving their property back.

I think the gov are now changing the law so this includes pets too. So if you find a stray dog you can't (legally) just take it home or sell it on, you have to (presumably) take it to a vet's to see if it's microchipped and if not then take other measure to try and find the dogs owner.

No not the same as picking up cash on a public street. That is you intervening and taking something that was in no way directed to you, that could otherwise have got back to the owner.

This is an item being put on your property, intentionally. You have in no way intervened or taken action to make that happen. It has happened because the company and the courier have failed to do their job and already caused significant inconvenience to the customer- the stress of not getting the item when promised, the hassle of contacting the company to chase it down, and the hassle of finding an alternative product elsewhere. And now the hassle of receiving something you may not need anymore.

People don't seem to understand that the refund is to compensate for that and acknowledge that they failed to deliver the product in a timely manner. The company are effectively writing this cost off, and taking the financial hit in order to take responsibility for their mistake and maintain customer loyalty for the next time and hopefully avoid a stinking online review, they don't care about the product. Any decent company have a budget line for dealing with these situations, and if the cost of all these screw ups grows beyond what is tolerable for them, then that pushes them to make improvements - eg to adjust their time promises to be more accurate or employing more reliable couriers, or improving their processes so they are shipping things more reliably. It is not for the customer to 1. Take the hit if their inefficiency, then 2. proactively help them get their property back!

Yes, if the company explicitly said on offering a refund, that if the customer accepts, and the item turns up they would need it back , then fine , customer should accept it turn down these terms and stick to any agreement. And no, if asked if it turned up, customer should tell the truth. But companies don't do this because they don't care. It's more hassle than it's worth: (instructing customer in returns/ sending courier, risking pissing of already badly served customer, receiving and repackaging goods etc). When a delivery goes wrong, it's a sunk cost and the priority is to maintain customer loyalty for the long term.

It is not the customers job to bear the hassle of their screw up.

Then what's the point of this thread? Other than attention seeking?

These are all business decisions on the part of the company..... calculated ones. Whether to go with more reliable couriers, delivering more on time but cutting into their sales or profits; or whether to go with a cheaper courier and bear the lesser cost of some lost products and disappointed customers.... whether to under or over promise your delivery timelines- trading of extra sales for extra failed deliveries.... whether to bare the hassle and cost of reclaiming goods and repackaging goods, or the cost of simply writing them off.

It really isn't the same as your interactions with individuals or even small companies. As customers our job is to be clear about what we want, give effective feedback, reward great performance through customer loyalty, and hold accountable when what we get is crap. Our job is not to pick up the pieces for huge companies who the majority of the time are making extremely profit-driven decisions about exactly what level of quality and reliability they can be bothered to deliver to us.

This is not a system of personal ownership, it is one of corporate efficiency. The refund is not to transfer ownership back it is to acknowledge and rightly take responsibility for their screw up and failing to deliver what they promised within the timescale they promised.

Anyway, I've said way more than my piece. So will bow out now

I wouldn't imagine there would be any legal recourse. I guess they might contact you and ask for them to be returned but equally they probably can't prove you have them.

What if someone threw their wallet into your garden? (I'm not necessarily arguing the point btw, but I don't think the analogy you have used is correct so I am interested to know if you think the point holds with a better equivalent)

I expect they will tell you to keep it.

The problem is that the orders have been delivered and it will be the delivery company who will be asked to refund the company you bought them from. The delivery company will have proof of delivery and a picture so if it is investigated their legal team will most likely chase you for answers.

You're committing a crime and if you have a job that a criminal record won’t affect or you’ll never need credit again in your life then being caught will not cause you any issues other than a criminal record.

These are the risks you have to accept you are taking should you decide to steal the items and say nothing.

If you do decide to do not steal these items and explain to the company what has happened they may let you keep them anyway.

Glad you've made your peace with stealing.