For keeping an order that I’ve received a refund for?

[Phallicfriday]

Long story short. Ordered DH a fairly expensive tech item for his birthday from large retailer. Item didn’t arrive and when I chased the retailer it was presumed lost and they sent a replacement. It was supposed to be on next day delivery but this didn’t materialize either. Week later I call again to be told the item was detained by customs and it would be returned to the retailer. They point blank refused to send another item and instead only offered me a refund. Feeling very frustrated as I still had no birthday gift, I reluctantly accepted and ordered a replacement on Amazon (which I haven’t received yet either). Since receiving the refund, both the ‘missing’ orders have turned up. I am overseas and so I imagine it would be a hassle/expense for them to arrange a courier to collect them for return? AIBU for just keeping quiet and keeping both? Appreciate that this is morally ambiguous and I am quite sure I will get lots of mumsnetters up in arms at my morally bankrupt thought processes but they are a large company and surely will have insurance to cover such losses? And who really gives a flying fuck if the insurance company are out of pocket a few hundred quid when they rob the living daylights out of us all? My only concern is if they can track / trace that they have been delivered and force me to return / repay? What would you do?

If they do come back to you about the items being delivered, just say you're not aware of it and you will check with DH. Then get back to them a day later to say "oh DH received and hadn't told you, you can pay for one item and they can come pick up the other" simples.

Do they have a photograph of the item having been delivered? A photograph of the package on your doorstep for example.

It's stealing. Stealing a substantial amount from a business. That means they put the prices up for everyone else.

Shocking that you can pretend that it's "morally ambiguous". Stealing is obviously wrong.

Wonder what happened with that thread lol

That’s not what your OP said.

Karma will get you, you will lose MUCH more than you’ve gained here.

Of course there is a victim. Someone, somewhere has to ‘pay’ for it, usually all the rest of us in price rises because so many people seem to think that if it is a’big business’ then it doesn’t matter. And, as others have said, the term ‘ morally questionable’ is disingenuous.It is theft, but since you’re ok with that, why not just own it, rather than suggesting there is ambiguity there.

I'd get in touch with them. You never know if you'd want to do business with them again.

The other fear is the courier is the person who gets the blame - some poor sod could loose their job over it.

It's wrong, and it's a present- why give someone a present that you didn't pay for?

Please don’t do this, I’m an online retailer. Once the delivery company provides evidence that it was delivered and not lost, the insurance will not cover it. (Like all regular insurance they are very strict).

They will find out as soon as they go to put a claim in (if not before) and I would imagine they follow it up - especially for a tech item. I know I would. I would call local police as it is theft and they have all the digital proof. You don’t want your name splashed over the local papers

I'd keep them. No qualms at all. After watching that documentary showing all the brand new things Amazon burns and trashes, they wouldn't give a crap about some random items.

I'd definitely keep it and I'd be proud of my bargain 🤣

Amazon isn't just the one big company, individual traders who may well be small businesses use it as a platform to sell. If ifs Amazon OP could be stealing from a small business rather than a big company.

This isn't morally ambiguous OP, you've shown that you're only concern about committing theft is getting caught. The size of the company doesn't make a difference to morality and other shoppers ultimately the cost of theft not the company. More theft leads to higher prices.

It's theft. If it's Amazon then keep it. I'm ok with that theft . Anyone else then would be inclined to do the right thing. Small businesses wouldnt consider ripping them off

I mean, keep them or don't keep them, it's really up to you. In a situation like this I can imagine myself worrying endlessly that I'm about to blot my karmic copybook forever more, and will die a pauper as a direct consequence, lol. So do whatever brings you the best result is probably my advice.

I'd keep it. They've got no proof of delivery.

It's illegal. If you get caught you could face the consequences of a criminal record, which have implications far beyond just a few hundred pounds.

The CEO isn't going to be affected at all by a couple of items being stolen, but the people directly involved in having got the items to you could be.

Let's hope so.

Sorry I was brought up to be always honest and that's the way I bring my kids up. Doesn't matter big retailer or small, insurance or no insurance it comes from somebody's pocket. Different if they say keep it or if they return it at there own expense but nope I would not do this regardless of delays which is more than expected long before Xmas anyhow

It would probably depend if the retailer operating through the Amazon third party platform was Amazon itself or a small - medium business. If Amazon, I’d leave the ball in their court and simply pay for it with the refund if they chased it up and demanded payment.

But if it was a third party retailer, especially a medium or small business, I would contact them and arrange to pay, if requested.

I dislike Amazon and I believe they have basically forced other retailers onto their platform with free Prime membership trials, which ramps up their profits as far as I am concerned.

I would contact them and notify them, but leave it up to the retailer to schedule collection at a convenient time to you.
It’s just always better to be honest in these scenarios.
I know of someone who done something similar with a high value item, and the retailer took it to the police, and they’re banned for life from that retailer. And the goods recovered from their property, which was the proof the theft was committed.
There’s a good chance if you call them, they might say keep it. But do bear in mind, these retailers tend to have loss prevention teams for this reason.

As regards insurance, the reason we all pay such high premiums is because people like you are happy to defraud them.

I so hate this type of excuse for theft, the same as "it's OK to steal from a supermarket because they all treat suppliers badly".

I'm willing to bet that none of the people who say this kind of thing ever do anything actually useful to small businesses like buying directly from them or from a farmers market. No, just use it as an excuse for their own bad behaviour.

The retailer may come back when they do inventory and work out some items are missing. They'll have evidence from delivery company it was delivered albeit not to you personally. They will weigh up the benefit of pursuing vs cost of item. Hundreds is marginal so could go either way.

In likelihood if they pursue, it will the delivery company they go after, unless this was your agreed safe place. As the delivery company failed to deliver to you. This may end up on the shoulders of the delivery person depending on the delivery company terms and conditions of employment.

If it was your agreed safe place then you will have been deemed to accept it and then it will be you they pursue which would likely be a letter/contact asking for payment and thereafter small claims. Probably they won't bother with that given the value (although 2 of them may swing it).

Easier thing to do which I've done in the past is to make a lightweight effort to return it. So email their customer service and say you will make items available for collection on this date or something. If they don't respond then you can genuinely say you tried and keep the item

Without a doubt, keep them. They'll never know. I wouldn't give it another thought!

There is no such thing as KARMA, honestly think about it!

If she loses anything then it’s just life, not that she’s likely to lose anything.

I cannot believe grown adults believe in such utter nonsense!

I’m afraid I would contact the seller, if it was a cheap item, then I wouldn’t bother, but an expensive item, no matter if it was from a big or small company.