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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu? Don't want to include anyone but women

118 replies

Getthatwindowclosed · 17/01/2025 18:47

I recently took up a position at a university and will be undertaking research as part of this.

I had to propose the topic to three senior colleagues and my topic is women in my field - don't want to out myself too much here.

I was able to get almost to the end of my pitch and one of my colleagues cut me off when I said 'women' and stated that surely I meant to include non-binary and transwomen too. Felt like I was under pressure to say yes. So I did.

My field is notoriously difficult for women and I wanted to focus on this. I like to think that I'm open-minded but I just don't know how to handle this, as my colleagues seem very set on being as inclusive as possible.

Am I being unreasonable by fighting to keep my research purely about women?

OP posts:
zerogrey · 17/01/2025 18:50

This reply has been deleted

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BobbyBiscuits · 17/01/2025 18:51

I don't think there's anything wrong with you just focussing on women. I guess plenty of nb people are bio women though. Surely it's up to you who you interview or report on.

Titasaducksarse · 17/01/2025 18:53

Oh gosh. Does there need to be a differentiation? Or is the thing that a transwoman before they transitioned would have found it easier to go into your field than after transition thus this could skew your research. If post transition does it matter?

Catza · 17/01/2025 18:53

I don't know about your field but in mine, inclusion criteria is established with very clear parameters before any project is undertaken and, providing, I can justify inclusion and exclusion criteria it's not being questioned. Do you have a firm reasoning for only including women? If so, then say that. Nobody can really pressure you into changing your inclusion criteria if there is reasonable justification for it.

Chuchoter · 17/01/2025 18:54

It gets more ridiculous every day!

Why should pretend women be included in research about women?

DaDaDoDaiDa · 17/01/2025 18:54

Are there many transwomen/non-binary biological women in your field?

CraftyOP · 17/01/2025 18:54

I'm sure the field is just as notoriously difficult for transwomen and you might not get any participants anyway. The university is paying you to pursue the research so you'll need to support their processes and equality is often a key aspect of that. While we're on the topic a lot of women focused work is really focussed on white women so I'd hope you're also trying to engage women from a range of diverse backgrounds

myplace · 17/01/2025 18:56

Can you describe it as an initial study focussing only on women to keep the methodology clear, but hopefully not leading to further studies?

2025willbemytime · 17/01/2025 18:56

YANBU but you need to be able to stand firm and not give in to pressure. Again.

Notgivenuphope · 17/01/2025 18:58

You are totally correct OP. No need to justify.

bridgetreilly · 17/01/2025 18:58

You need to explain why, which shouldn’t be hard. “This study focuses on difficulties faced by cis women, to avoid confusion with complicating factors that may create different issues for non-binary and trans women.” Helps if you are going to look at things like maternity/menopause issues, for example.

giggly · 17/01/2025 18:59

Titasaducksarse · 17/01/2025 18:53

Oh gosh. Does there need to be a differentiation? Or is the thing that a transwoman before they transitioned would have found it easier to go into your field than after transition thus this could skew your research. If post transition does it matter?

Edited

Yes because they are still biologically male.

Snowmanscarf · 17/01/2025 18:59

Can you do two parts to the study - 1) women, 2) trans etc

mediummumma · 17/01/2025 19:01

Include ‘trans’ by including trans men (biological women) but do not include men in your research. To do so would be absurd if it’s really about women! Push back because it’s this type of lunacy that has led to this mess (see a PP asking if there’s a difference!) 😞

Theunamedcat · 17/01/2025 19:01

So a male could easily get into your field then transition that would skew the data your focus should be women who were women at the time they came into the field

Sissix · 17/01/2025 19:02

mediummumma · 17/01/2025 19:01

Include ‘trans’ by including trans men (biological women) but do not include men in your research. To do so would be absurd if it’s really about women! Push back because it’s this type of lunacy that has led to this mess (see a PP asking if there’s a difference!) 😞

You could do that.

uhOhOP · 17/01/2025 19:05

CraftyOP · 17/01/2025 18:54

I'm sure the field is just as notoriously difficult for transwomen and you might not get any participants anyway. The university is paying you to pursue the research so you'll need to support their processes and equality is often a key aspect of that. While we're on the topic a lot of women focused work is really focussed on white women so I'd hope you're also trying to engage women from a range of diverse backgrounds

Transwomen are men. If they find it difficult to work in a particular field because they are trans, they should participate in research about the difficulties men face when they decide they will parade around pretending to be women. OP's research is about women.

Getthatwindowclosed · 17/01/2025 19:06

Titasaducksarse · 17/01/2025 18:53

Oh gosh. Does there need to be a differentiation? Or is the thing that a transwoman before they transitioned would have found it easier to go into your field than after transition thus this could skew your research. If post transition does it matter?

Edited

Post transition probably wouldn't matter. However, it would skew the research if not.

OP posts:
Norma27 · 17/01/2025 19:07

No males should be included in studies about women.
That includes those men who decide to wear dresses and lipstick. They are men.

glittercunt · 17/01/2025 19:08

I would suggest specifying that you wish to focus on women in the field whereby woman should be assumed to mean ciswomen and any other colleague of an assigned female at birth background presenting or easily viewed as women.

Unless your research is intended to demonstrate difficulties faced by trans folks pre or post transition entering your field, then I don't believe it would be wrong for your focus to be on what you wish it to be on - because it's a valid important study.

I say this as a happy member of the T umbrella. I was going into academia, this sort of thing is important just as someone else studying similar but with trans and non binary folk as the primary focus, would be important. Important but different issues.

Getthatwindowclosed · 17/01/2025 19:08

Catza · 17/01/2025 18:53

I don't know about your field but in mine, inclusion criteria is established with very clear parameters before any project is undertaken and, providing, I can justify inclusion and exclusion criteria it's not being questioned. Do you have a firm reasoning for only including women? If so, then say that. Nobody can really pressure you into changing your inclusion criteria if there is reasonable justification for it.

Thank you. Yes, there's a wealth of research on women in our field and very little on nb and trans. I wished to include topics such as motherhood and how women find it difficult to find work in our industry after around 35.

OP posts:
zerogrey · 17/01/2025 19:08

This reply has been deleted

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hagchic · 17/01/2025 19:09

If you involve men in your research about women, your research will be void.

Getthatwindowclosed · 17/01/2025 19:10

DaDaDoDaiDa · 17/01/2025 18:54

Are there many transwomen/non-binary biological women in your field?

I wouldn't say there were more than any other field, however, I feel like this would make for a completely different project.

OP posts:
SnidelyWhiplash · 17/01/2025 19:10

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to focus on actual women. Men should not be included as a consequence of this.

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