To think pet rats don't belong in coffee shops?

[Rowena191]

I was a bit gobsmacked today in the queue in a coffee shop. The young woman in front of me was wearing a baby sling and out crawled a pet rat, which ran up and down her arm and had a good sniff about. It didn't poo, wee, bite anyone or run on the counter tops. But all the same I felt creeped out. Rats are not what I am expecting in an establishment serving food. I didn't say anything as frankly I was too shocked.

Was I being unreasonable and pet rats are fine? (I do think pet rats are fine if kept in your own home.) Should I have said something to her? Should I have complained to the manager? Plenty of people bring in dogs after all.

They lived in her bra full time. They slept there with her and rarely came out. It was unique situation as in she treated them as therapy pet(s).

They definitely didn't have a bloody litter tray. She also had hamsters that got her kicked out of her room as they had no cage and lived free reign.

As rats are incontinent and continually urinate....he absolutely was weeing all over that woman.

Well, the problem is that rats can spread disease like Salmonellosis or Leptospirosis. Some rat species spread Hantavirus which isn’t a great pulmonary syndrome.

I’m not afraid of rats or mice…live in the country and encounter all of these frequently. But I don’t invite them to my dinner table, and I have a cat that dispatches them so my garden/sheds/greenhouses aren’t decimated.

I also don’t have the cat in the kitchen…she generally sleeps in the conservatory in her basket and is outdoors on our land doing her job. Cat cafes are not something I would visit.

I really do not want to go to a cafe and have rats around when people are eating, and would not go to such an establishment.

Rats are not incontinent. Mice are, rats aren’t.

Like cats and dogs, they will wee to mark territory but they are absolutely not incontinent.

I was in Bristol by the docks once, and a girl with dreads had a pet rat on her shoulder...He looked very sweet.

Pet 'Hooded' rats aren't like the Street/Barnyard version , as likely to be much cleaner and not carrying diseases.

Seen some whoppers {wild ones} around where they get easy access to a food source. They are clever and resourceful.

Well, the problem is that rats can spread disease like Salmonellosis or Leptospirosis

Jesus, it’s misconception bingo here.

@BeAzureAnt

WILD rats and mice, plus cows, pigs and dogs amongst others, can spread those diseases. Unless the pet rat hangs out with sewer rats in its spare time, no, ‘fancy’ (ie pet) rats do not spread the disease. They are no more risk than a guinea pig.

In fact, far less risk, as a guinea pig is likely to spend time in the garden where other animals might have urinated.

How is it hard to see that what applies to wild brown rats as health risks and what applies to healthy indoor pet rats are completely different? You wouldn’t expect a feral cat or a dingo to be the same as Tiddles and Rover.

😂That's me on a good day!

The problem is that we don’t know if the pet rat has had a vet check or they are well or ill. Why would you take the risk? Domestic animals can pick up things from other animals outdoors. That’s why there are vaccines for cats and dogs. Or is your right to be with a pet rat more important than people’s health, or maybe their discomfort to see a rat crawling around whilst eating a sandwich. At the very least, go outside…you could share your sandwich with your rat if you want to.

Having an irrational phobia of a pet rat isn't a reason for the rat not to be in a cafe

You don't know if any animal has had a vet check or been vaccinated

A pet rat is verg unlikely to have any of those diseases. And a rat that's loved enough to stay in their owners pouch is very litkely to have proper vet care.

A dog/cat that sniffs around other animals piss is more likely to carry diseases. And the rat isn't walking on your food. It's sitting on their owner.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/653b8dc3e6c9680014aa9c28/reducing-the-risk-of-human-infection-from-pet-rodents.pdf

This might be interesting to you. Also this. This concerns pet rodents
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pet-rats-mice-hamsters-reducing-the-risk-of-infection/reducing-the-risk-of-human-infection-from-pet-rodents

"How infections are passed to people
Infections may be acquired following:

• animal bites
• contact with rodent urine, droppings, saliva or bedding materials
• breathing in rodent dander, dried droppings and urine, or dust from bedding materials contaminated by them

Hantavirus infections in particular can result from breathing in the virus. This can happen when rodent urine and droppings that contain hantavirus are stirred up into the air. People can also become infected when they touch mouse or rat urine, droppings, saliva or bedding materials that contain the virus and then touch their eyes, nose, or mouth. Infection can also occur if contaminated food and drink are consumed."

"Pregnancy concerns with pet rodents
Although the risk of infection from pet rodents is generally low, people who are pregnant should be aware of the risks associated with acquiring these infections during pregnancy.
The following precautions can be taken to reduce even further the risk:

• keep your pet rodent in a separate part of the home and ask another family member or friend to clean the cage and care for the pet
• avoid prolonged stays in the room where the rodent is kept
• pregnant people should avoid contact with wild rodents"

That was really cruel of her. They are entitled to a better life than that. It doesn't sound like she was meeting their needs. If she provided no opportunity for them to go to the toilet then yes they had no choice but to go in her bra. Which they would have been very distressed about actually. Rats are VERY clean.

My niece has an assistance dog (not a guide dog) and she has a great life. When her vest is on, she's working and she's fab. When her vest is off she is off duty (if there's an emergency her training kicks in) and my niece makes sure she has plenty of time to just be a dog.

I would have walked out immediately.

Multiple occassions I have seen people out with their pet rates and I don’t get it.

We don’t know if that’s a lab or a dingo…

Fancy rats have been bred for generations for temperament and appearance. They are far less likely to have come across an animal in the wild than pets who frequently go outside like cats, dogs, guinea pigs, whatever. They are inside pets.

Personally I wouldn’t take a rat (not that I have one) or my cat to a cafe, but there isn’t a problem with hygiene as long as the animal stays with/on its owner. Which in this case it did. So absolutely no health risk, which is less true of a dog.

As for “what if people are uncomfortable or phobic”?
It hasn’t stopped the dog owners, has it. I’ve met many more badly controlled dogs than I have rats. Been bitten by more dogs, too.

I don't see it as any different to any other pet animal as long as the owner has it under control.

I think it is, given that the fear of vermin is so widespread.

I agree. This would probably be the first thing that came to my mind too, and I’d never do it, but other than that it would make my day to see a rat out and about like this.
Pets rats are generally very clean and tame. They’re really smart too, nearly like little dogs.
I used to share a bedroom with five caged rats that had been freed by the Animal Liberation Front.
The only thing that would make my day even more would be that hedgehog on the train 🦔 😍

OK, but please see the government guidance I posted upthread about pet rodents. There is a concern about their role in disease spread.

Seems odd to refer to a “phobia” as “irrational” given it’s a mental health issue that sufferers have no control over.

As a rat owner myself I would never do this - mainly because I don't think it's safe for the rat! I have no doubt her rat was a well behaved good, sweet natured ratty otherwise she wouldn't have it with her, but personally I'd be scared that someone's dog would go for it, or it might get lost or frightened. Some rats are very gung-ho, but I know my rat boys would be really scared in a busy cafe environment and would immediately dive down my jumper to hide. I'm also aware that some people are scared of rats so would bear that in mind - not fair I don't think to be scaring people who don't get the rat love. Just as an fyi most rats are very sweet natured and affectionate and will not be planning to bite your face off. But yes, the main thing I would be concerned about is ratty being spotted by a dog with a high prey drive - not worth the risk!

Tautology, sure, as phobias are irrational. But my phobia isn’t anyone else’s problem to accommodate.

Ok.

Id have left the instantly and gone elsewhere - I wouldn't have waited to speak to anyone.

I would have been fine had the pet been a snake but not a rat

If people are allowed to bring in dogs then they should be allowed to bring in other animals. Rats are pretty unobtrusive and domestic rats are docile, extremely clean and largely disease-free.

I realise some people are frightened of them, but some people are frightened of all sorts of things that we don’t ban from public spaces.

I wouldn't be particularly bothered by the presence of the rat, but I'd think they were a pretty shitty pet owner. You can't just go taking your rat anywhere.