To be completely shocked by this - Bridget can’t tell us the impact of the government’s VAT on Education?

[Sasskitty]

Bridget Phillipson dodges question on impact of private school tax raid

As parents and schools complain of chaos, Ms Phillipson refuses to spell out details of the assessment made by the department for education

Bridget Phillipson failed to spell out the full impact of the government’s private school VAT raid, dodging the question when asked about the possible implications for special education schools.

While she said the government has “looked at all of the potential impacts”, her answer failed to provide any real detail on the expected consequences.

It comes as parents and schools complain about the implications of the tax raid, which came into force on New Year’s Day and is expected to raise £1.5bn for the Treasury.

YABU - Bridget Phillipson has it all in hand. She just didn’t feel like answering the pesky question. The point is to piss rich people off. Leave Labour alone, they want nothing but erm oh I’m not sure.

YANBU - Phillipson clearly has no idea what the impact of VAT on Education will be. Nor does she really care as long as she’s seen to be punishing those horrible rich people. Or even better (it seems) the not really rich ones just trying to improve the education of their children as the available state schools were not suitable.

https://apple.news/AO7fcmrzuRaik4stLaPQxwA

(sorry paywall but there’s not much more in the article)

PS. I’ve removed the poll tally, no one needs to see real data. Do they?

Gosh, cutting this is so short sighted. It was a relatively small spend, and good value for money. Surely so many other things that could have been cut before key educational initiatives, aimed at disadvantaged state school pupils?

So much for the VAT being invested back into state schools

Also cutting STEM:

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/labour-cost-cutting-spree-now-hits-stem/

Anyone who claims Labour support education are lying. They are slashing spending on anything above the most basic entitlement. Levelling down whilst simultaneously strangling parents from choosing alternatives.

How depressing. And entirely foreseeable

People were sold a lie on this

Yawn.

There aren’t enough maths and physics teachers so the ingenious solution appears to be to cut enthusiasm for those subjects. They will just import the AI talent and also they know parents will have to tutor/sign up for websites to aid learning. And they are banking on private school parents just paying up.
Meanwhile, the more worrying aspect is annoying the state education sector. Nobody wants more strikes. It’s difficult to tell what the reception is in state education of some of the reforms. Seems to me the bar is to lower competition and make the more successful schools take their fair share of SEND primarily.

Why so uncaring about the impact on the state sector?

Do you have dc in state education?

I do and the decrease in standards or the cuts in another post isn't welcome

@Letlooseonthedanse I fundamentally don't understand your stance..it's boring to discuss the myriad ways that children are being let down? Ok then, off you pop and leave us to it.

Yawn at the cuts to state education? Ok then, not sure why you are even on this thread. You contribute nothing of substance

Goodness.

‘So much for the VAT being invested back into state schools’

will give them half a second to actually collect the VAT… it’s only just been applied. Nothing that you would think that from the months of howling about it on MN.

Same. If the impact is bad for state then what's the point?

Collect VAT? They will be refunding the elite schools, primarily, for capital projects. Cannot wait to see the headlines!

Oh @Araminta1003 you can’t have it both ways, my darling.
Either this policy is the death of private education or not - but now you’re saying it’ll make them richer??

VAT is VAT - and there are ways in which some can be claimed back - all part of the system. Which Is fine. And if a school can claim some back they should , and no doubt as noble as these institutions are they’ll put that money right back into scholarships for WC kids, and free use of their facilities for the local PRU and the like… It’s a win win.

Nothing I have said across threads is inconsistent. The most elite private schools will have rich parent groups and prepayment schemes and capital projects.

Let’s do a little exercise for the hard of thinking. 10000000 in prepayments is not just loss of 20 per cent VAT on those school fees over a number of years. The loss is also an average 5 per cent return right now, taxed at 45 per cent. 225k loss per annum right there. I do hope someone figures out how much this Socialist old man’s dream has ended up costing us all. No wonder they are having to cut stuff in state schools. The figures will come out, the press is just waiting for it. The private school being a charity typically can invest the 10 million tax free and keep the 500k, every year, growing significantly. It’s a trustees duty to do what is in the best interests of the school.

‘Nothing I have said across threads is inconsistent.’

right. Sure. We just have to disagree.
Like the majority I don’t see some well of people losing a tax break that they should t have had in the first place as issue.
If removing said tax break/s means the businesses they use jack up their prices - again- then they should vote for their feet.
If you can afford £20k ish per kid for secondary fees then you should be able to pay the tax due on that. The rest of us pay VAT on goods and services all the time, sometimes for things that I would consider necessary… like making sure my car is safe to drive or fixing a leaking roof or broken windows in the home.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-10125/CBP-10125.pdf

“We believe that the tax proposals are a proportionate policy to meet the justified aim of improving public services, including state-funded education. The policy does not deny the right to education and the State is not under an obligation to subsidise. We also do not believe the proposals are discriminatory, as it is a general measure of economic strategy that is proportionate to the aim pursued.”

Well all these arguments do not hold if a) they are not improving state education with the “funds” - in fact, they are cutting programmes And b) if they do not make substantial amounts out of private schools, but lose or make virtually anything.
So not proportionate at all, after all. Which then makes it discriminatory.

Also the whole lie around “subsidy” is just that. An outright gaslighting lie, they should have not gone there!

“Subsidy” and “tax break” whilst being used as political speak, will have definitions in common law and statute.

VAT is a tax on the fees paid by PARENTS. Nobody is in any shape or form subsidising those parents! They are not getting tax breaks, whatsoever.
There is an issue here and a gross misunderstanding of who is being taxed and who (which entity) may have gotten, by virtue of having charitable status, some favourable tax treatment.

This is becoming a bit of a pointless thread as no one is persuading anyone of anything and those arguing for VAT don't seem to understand it anyway and aren't arguing rationally. Unfortunate.

@Hoppingabout - there are no rationale arguments though. It’s all entirely political.

Agree. But tiresome. There are none so blind that will not see. I think you are banging your head against a brick wall trying to be reasonable as I see a PP has brought the argument right back in a circle to the start. So as I said, pointless thread.

ah, it’s a classic - someone’s opinion differs from mine therefore it’s all pointless…

That poster is just on a wind up. It has been pointed out many times re:'tax breaks' but they keep twittering on. They also don't care about cuts to state schools

It's not your differing opinion that's the problem. It's that you are trying to argue using statements that aren't based on any interpretation of the facts. If you are going to make a case for VAT and your purpose is to persuade rather than just pronounce then at least know what you are talking about. Or perhaps know how VAT works. There's no shame in admitting that you are wrong neither is there shame in admitting that other people may have a valid point.

Anyway that's just a suggestion going forward but otherwise you just seem to pronounce things for no particular reason thus rendering this thread pointless.

The poster is using the same language as the Government though - “subsidy”, “tax break” etc. The issue is that we have a party that is willing to use such language when it is misleading? What country do we live in? Where the Education Secretary does not balance the need of all children and uses misleading language? What faith are we meant to have in the political system? This is about so much more than VAT for me. It really has become a question for me of whether I want to continue to live in this country or not and what I will be encouraging my children to do. It is just the tip of the iceberg after Brexit and previous shenanigans. I cannot have faith in Governments that do not respect the law? Why should I stay here and contribute to such a system?

Look at page 22 of the Research Briefing linked above “We are keeping the human rights analysis under review and would not be progressing these measures if we considered that there was a risk that they were not compatible with the UK’s human rights obligations.”

Hmm, that simply says to me that if they lose in court, the VAT will be pulled. They are keeping it “under review”. Yeah right, they know it is problematic!