Dispatches- Britain’s Benefit scandal

[Sunnywalker]

Anybody watched this? It’s made me so angry. Some highlights include a company that can’t recruit an apprentice on 26k because sickness benefits would amount to 24k so it wouldn’t be worth it. 500,000, 25-34 years old on long term sick, a woman who has never had a FT job and claims 35k in benefits, this lady would like to work but says will never achieve the same income if she worked.

This country is bankrupt, public services crumbling! What is going on? Why isn’t there an overhaul!

I don't understand how exactly, considering how stringent benefits checks are. There seems to be very little wiggle room to actually claim benefits, let alone play the system.

I was thinking more in terms of the figure in the OP.

The apprenticeship pays £26k, ‘living on benefits’ pays £24k. For it to be true that someone can’t fill the position because of that then either everyone nearby who isn’t working has children is claiming right up to the benefits cap or they are claiming disability benefits that aren’t subject to the cap and aren’t income based so they wouldn’t lose if they started working. There can’t be anyone nearby who is single and subject to the single person’s cap of £14k (slightly more in London).

The whole thing smells of complete bullshit. I wonder why he actually can’t fill that position.

This is what 14 years of the Tories did. It will take years the the damage to be repaired. It's what Labour are trying to do now but the newspapers won't report any of the positive things they have been doing so we'll probably go back to managed Tory decline at the next election (or worse the incompetence of Reform).

Didn’t channel 4 look at this one ages ago and the DWP couldn’t find more than a handful of families it applied to.

Families where nobody has every worked are actually a small minority.

Picking and choosing a job should not be allowed. 3 refusals and benefits stop.

Why do you assume everybody can live with a parent?

Leaving aside abuse people can have parents with no room in their home or who live in a completely different city / country.

What a bonkers comment 😂

I dont think it will ever be 'fixed' too many people depend on it and too many children would suffer if benefits stopped. Britain is a soft touch and people know it.

I don't understand how anyone can possibly think this government is good for the UK. The last lot were useless and I was looking forward to change. This lot have somehow managed to be even worse.

Benefits aren't 24k. Where have you got that figure from?

100% they do. Your net take home is equivalent to a salary of £96k after tax. That’s frankly disgusting. Disabilities or not, there is no way as a society we can afford to subsidise by that much. On top of every other basic right like healthcare and education.

There comes a time where life choices come into it. In other, similar, western countries - people wouldn’t have multiple children in your circumstances and the state won’t fund it.

When you have one family clearing the benefit equivalent of nearly a nearly a 6 figure salary before pension contributions or anything - there is a serious problem.

I don’t really understand how people get away with it. When I was made redundant about 10 years ago, I had to sign on as unemployed so I could claim against my redundancy cover (otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered). I had to provide evidence of job hunting, endure painful meetings (during which I actually had to show the job centre employee how to use their own computer!) and many other useless, time wasting and humiliating activities. I don’t get how people can keep going through that fiasco indefinitely.

I know there are lots of other types of benefits including those that pay out for working claimants, but all I hear is how hard it is to obtain them, especially disability benefit. It seems to be hard even for those with genuine claims.

Surely it can’t be that easy to continue to receive money over the long term unless you are a genuine case?

This is already the case. You cannot refuse even 1 job without being sanctioned.

Yup. Plus, the current fraudulent claim level for PIP is at 0%.

Helping a sick family member claim made me realise how difficult it is to even receive the help you are entitled to. She needed a letter from our GP certifying that she is indeed disabled and unable to work in order to be granted PIP.

Yes, but if rents were lower rather than rising astronomically the they would be getting less in benefits and you would have more money in your pocket at the end of the month.

I'm on long term sickness benefits. I'm 31. I have 10 GCSEs and 3 a levels, I've worked since I left 6th form.
Got terribly ill with my mental health. Physical health and now I can't work.
I was in a senior health care role and I hate that I can't work, I'm bored and it's making me worse.
I can't get my head around that anyone my age would choose not work, it's not just about the money, it about the social interactions, the getting out and contributing to society.
I've turned my life around, mentally, I engage with my mental health team and I'm getting there physically and I hope to work again.
But, people that are abusing the system are giving those who genuinely are unwell a bad name, we aren't all lazy bastards, who don't want to work because we can't be arsed.
The system are coming down on the wrong people.
I'm scared into being forced into going back into work too soon even though I'm working towards going back to work, I rely on the sickness benefits I currently receive to get by.

I don't think the OP argument is necessarily about who earns what.

It's people who are able, stating that they would rather stay on benefits than work, because they would have to work 40 hours a week to earn what they get in benefits. Like many ppl working full time already do.

Morally, if you CAN work, you SHOULD work. UC gives a generous 85% payment for childcare if needed.

But, huge amounts of sickness are due to "anxiety and depression".....I think there certainly is a discussion that needs to be had about how and what jobs could be done even with these conditions and often how they are improved by working. I know some kinds can be debilitating, but honestly I'm not convinced they all are.

My old job I'd speak to 20 people a day, part of that was asking every person if they had support needs or medical conditions we should be aware of. I did the role for 5 years, I can count on one hand the people who DIDNT say they had these conditions. That's 100 ppl a week I spoke to, and I was one of 24 staff who did the same thing, and reports the same response. Most of the respondents were in the 18-35 age group. Why is this age group so affected by these!? We solve this and surely more people will be able to work.

I just think our societies attitude to working needs am overhaul... many jobs are going to be replaced by machines.
I think people would want to work if there was more carrot and less stick.
But going into a menial minimum wage job, where you get paid a pittance for doing large amounts of very hard work, and are spoken to and treated like dirt... isn't actually any better than the life some people have on benefits. Why would anyone want that?
I'm lucky that I love my job. It's only minimum wage and part time.. but it's so rewarding. I feel like I'm making a difference. My managers are lovely and so accommodating. As a result I feel incredibly loyal to my workplace. I go above and beyond.
But I've had jobs in the past that were behind awful.. bar work, working in a supermarket.. just treated like shit on a shoe.
I have been on benefits once in my life for 4 months when I was 23. It was awful.. I wasn't given enough money to actually cover my rent so had to use money from the rest of it to top my rent up which meant I was left a few pounds per week to eat. I had to attend a job club very far from where I lived and was forced to apply for the most unsuitable jobs. They made me apply for an apprenticeship that only paid a few quid an hour which would have been swallowed up by transport as it wasn't even in the same city!!
Abd this was before it all changed to UC which is supposed to be even harsher.
In the end I took a job in a garage which was pure Hell just the most awful place. I got sexually assaulted by the manager and left after a week. No protection no support. If you don't have a family around you you are fucked.
O just rejected the benefits, said i didnt want them any more. I lived in a tent for a while which I actually liked better than signing on! Eventually found a job through a friend in a different area.
I mean luckily I was young and able bodied and fairly clever.
But I just thought about how hard it would have been if I hadn't been.. the even worse way I would have been treated.
We need to look at the jobs actually available to people and why they aren't taking them. Money needs to be spent on properly training people for roles they are suited to and will stay in.
Working can provide you with a much better life in every single way, than benefits can... but people stuck on benefits who could work just aren't seeing this. They lack the ambition and motivation.
I personally DO NOT think we try solve that by making life even harder on benefits. Because that isn't the problem. The problem is how shit you are treated by most jobs at an entry minimum wage level. In my mind there's simply no need for this!! It's depressing and despiriting. You want people to actually want to go to work.. to take pride in their jobs.. to feel like a valued member of society. We would all benefit from that.
Focus should be on education and ambition.

If businesses believe it is acceptable to pay someone the same rate as benefits claimants get (which is the absolute minimum a person needs to survive) then something, somewhere has gone very, very wrong and it is not the benefit system.

Long-term sick is a totally different kettle of fish. You're now talking about people with life-limiting illnesses and disabilities. Do you really think pushing those people into the workplace or further into poverty is a good thing?

This.

I know someone who works ft and also gets the highest level of pip. She is quids in.
I think thats a disgrace. Yes, she's "entitled" to it but I'm still appalled at my taxes being used in this way.

I know at least 6 young women who got pregnant in their late teens - they were at primary school with my girls - and all got flats. Is that unusual?

Really? That almost sounds made up, given that maximum PIP is £737 a month. Not sure that is providing a life of luxury.

We are on benefits. Neither of us work. Our monthly income is £2,281. How far do you think that goes?

What do you do now, out of interest?

It's an imperfect benefit in that is takes a specific set of care needs and then give a specific sum as a sort of proxy that if you have those care needs your costs are likely to be higher.

It has different rates. A severely disabled child will get a much higher rate than one who only gets low rate care (£28 a week) remember child benefit is £25 a week for the eldest.

For some it's no way near the actual cost of the disability, and for a few others it might over estimate it - but the alternative would be incredibly expensive to administer with people sending receipts.