Ayaan hirsi ali…first time I’ve heard of her

[Meetmeatthatspecialplace]

Came across a video of her speaking last night
I find what she has to say about Islam very interesting, sensible and…worrying
Any thoughts?
I can’t seem to link 😬

I didn't slag her off because of her husband. I've been criticising her because of her views. If she was hanging around with the BNP I'd be criticising that as well.

Totally agree. I find it really chilling how keen so many people are to simply shut down discussion of things they find even slightly challenging. It's crazy that White left wing middle class women are trying to censor a black ex Muslim refugee from talking about her experiences just because they don't like the people she associates with

"I didn't slag her off because of her husband. I've been criticising her because of her views. If she was hanging around with the BNP I'd be criticising that as well."

The post you were responding to as talking about how it is misogynistic to criticise women because of the men they associate with. You disagreed with that.

What views do you disagree with?

I've already cited why I don't agree with her earlier in the thread.

Of course you can criticise someone for who they associate with.

Er a brief response is permitted.

Yes I think that must be what I was remembering from the book, which I read many many years ago. I remember that she embraced the burqa and felt safe and secure wearing it.

I do recall all the hoopla about her lying on her forms ect but honestly it seemed like a smear campaign. One of the issues was the use of her name, I believe they said that she used a false name or something. She didn’t, it is just that not every culture has the same rules with determining what name you use. and when you are born without a birth certificate it’s even more challenging. I believe she was using a grandparent’s family name which in her culture was entirely ok to do but it was jumped on as her being deceitful.

I think I first heard of her when her collaborator Theo Van Gogh was murdered in 2004 - they'd made a film criticizing Islam. Horrendous event.

I've read some of her stuff. I agree with her on the dangers of importing men from misogynistic cultures without proper integration (see the 1200 sexual assaults on NYE in Germany and the many other similar incidents) and how western feminists are too afraid to challenge it due to the cognitive dissonance of criticising people who are usually seen as victims in the 'matrix of victimhood'.

She claims that western feminists will often effectively prioritise Islam over women's rights for fear of being seen as intolerant and I certainly feel like I've seen that on mumsnet before now - have been a few threads on here in recent weeks.

With other stuff she seems more extreme but I wouldn't really class her as alt right any more than I'd say the Labour government are communists.

I think the far right align with her in the same way conservative Christian fundamentalists align with GC feminists. They do it through their racism just like the Christian orgs do it for their homophobia (as opposed to their concern for the more naive victims of trans ideology).

The GC lot and Hirsi Ali seem more concerned with the harms caused by these ideologies as opposed to using it to piggyback/trojan horse like the aforementioned groups for which it's just really a weapon.

Why shouldn’t we talk about Ayaan Hirsi Ali? It’s interesting to see how many people want to shut down any discussion. Why is this black, Somalian (by birth, if not now), ex-Muslim woman not a voice worth listening to? Why are some people suggesting it’s bigoted to even think about what she’s saying?

She's ruffled a lot of white feminists feathers which is why you see some snarky responses to her. I cba with an argument but the same posters were on the original thread where she was mentioned and were also trying to shut down the discussion there.

She’s brilliant, I love her

What original thread and why would white feminists be against her?

So funny how people are so gullible.

For those who dont want to watch the vid here's a summary:
Lied about her name
Lied about fleeing war
Lied about not being present at her 'forced' marriage.
Lied about fleeing family because she would be 'honour' killed
Lies about stats about muslims

"Oh but we LOVE her."😂

I’ve never heard of her either. No idea who she is

I saw that interview and she was absolutely right. Not far right or alt right just right.

Did you mean to be so bloody patronising?

AHA's books and articles offer a must-read insight of life under Islam for women.

I read both of her books - Infidel describes her family background in Somalia, her experience with FGM, moving to Kenya and Saudi, her association with the Muslim Brotherhood, and her eventual escape to NL and the USA.

When asking Muslim people what they think of her, the reaction is one of disgust and anger.

She's one of the bravest women alive who lives with the constant threat of death, and I value her views far above those of any Internet fool.

She has recently become a Christian after feeling there to be a spiritual vacuum in her life.

She explained most of that in her book Infidel. You'd know if, if you'd read it. She's not a liar.

Anyway, an amazing woman. Coincidentally, I just finished her book Heretic yesterday. She's an inspiration and talks perfect sense. She also often writes about people like above, who disagree with her (perfectly valid and evidenced) points and stoop down to personal attacts in order to shut her up. But she never 'shuts up', even after she had fatwa issued for her, multiple death threats, a collaborator on her film and a friend murdered in the street with a note (for her) essentially saying 'you're next' fixed to his chest with a knife, she keeps on writing and speaking. Love her.

The far right cite her because of her anti refugee, anti immigrant, anti Muslim views. She believes those jailed for inciting violence during the riots were unjustly jailed, that Muslims are colluding with Starmer and we should come out of the ECHR to stop asylum seekers from coming here.

You'd have thought that being a Muslim refugee herself, she'd have some empathy for others fleeing FGM or forced marriage but apparently not. She didn't think Trump went far enough when he banned Muslims from coming to the States.

She's a poster girl for people like Tommy Robinson and Elon Musk. You keep banging a drum for her.

Once again Mumsnet doesn't let me down. This is a woman who has been victimised under the name of being an Islamophobe. Despite being attacked for her beliefs as an ex-mulslim in a country where leaving the faith (apostasy) is punished by death according to the Koran. She lives under continual death threats because she has the audacity to study and dissect the Koran. And I just wish that every Mumsnet reader would please read it for themselves. Go to the source. I'm just bloody tired of explaining and telling people I know and love that they need to understand things like taqiyya (look it up for yourselves if you have children). If every so called feminist on Mumsnet took the time to understand Ayaan Hirsi Ali they should lobby their MP's to support her. Forget the mainstream media feminist puppets, she is the real deal.

2 things can be true at the same time. A person can have been heavily victimised for their beliefs, and then been further criticised/left unsupported by the left for talking about it. And themselves have quite extreme views of their own (quite probably caused by being victimised by Muslims and then "the left"). Its understandable but it isn't right. Its like a male gay friend of mine who suffered really horribly from homophobia in school and was then physically assaulted as a young man by right wing thugs. So he has an entirely understandable mistrust of anything labelled far right/right wing or homophobic/trnasphobic. Hence we had a big argument about JK Rowling and had to agree to disagree in the end. I can understand why he feels the way he does. But I can't agree. Thats how I feel about Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She has useful information re her own experiences. But she is an extremist.

I think you could be right, although I've not read enough of her stuff to really be able to say. But in balance I'd say the people she champions (Muslim women) are probably more in the victim demographic than those she criticises (Muslim men) even if the latter are also sometimes discriminated against.

But it's certainly odd to see western feminists centering men immigrating from cultures where it's acceptable to stone women to death for unproven accusations of infidelity (whilst sometimes having three wives themselves). Feminists are often extremists themselves tbf and it's a very similar dynamic to the outlook people are suggesting Hirsi Ali displays - e.g. they have overly extreme views/prejudice against men as a result of suffering at their hands. I'm talking about the sort of feminists that think imposing a curfew on all men is a reasonable suggestion etc.

Do you really compare yourself and your views to Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

No. HTH.