To ask why employers will bully, stomp and bribe with lunch vouchers to make staff go back to the office

[Everythingisnumbersnow]

But won't in any way make the office a nicer place to be?

Hotdesk serfdom is real.

Just give people a space and treat them like humans?

I work from home, we hot desk when in the office. If we're all in there aren't enough desks for us to sit together, seems pointless to go in if the people I work with aren't even sat near me. Why am I wasting my time going into an office to sit on my own? I can sit at home on my own and not do a 3 hour round trip on the motorway. It's not even like I can go over and talk to them because they'll be in meetings (usually on Teams).

Saying nothing of the CO2 / greenhouse gas emissions that are saved by avoiding the commute, particularly by car.

Nor that public transport (outside of London) isn’t nearly ready to take hundreds of thousands more commuters.

Nor that our roads are already badly potholed by existing traffic, with little in the way of free money to fix them.

This is true.

Am I the only person who enjoys working from the office? I only work from the office, never from home as I would hate WFH.

Don't think so, there are lots of people who much prefer it. There's huge variation in what people like and function best in, when it comes to working environments.

Saying nothing of the CO2 / greenhouse gas emissions that are saved by avoiding the commute, particularly by car.

In my getting longer life, all the initiatives around so called "climate change" have always centred on a combination of grants for the guys and extracting more money from the masses to pay them. Never anything practical and cheap. It's probably the main reason why there is so much scepticism that it's really happening.

Cities creating clean air zones whilst businesses exhort people to get into the office is mixed messaging at best.

Cities creating clean air zones whilst businesses exhort people to get into the office is mixed messaging at best.

This is certainly true.

There's also the money issue, which fits with your point about initiatives too often passing on costs to ordinary people. Commuting is expensive, and clearly not everyone can access housing close to the biggest job markets. Those who want to see remote working reduced are therefore advocating for more commuting.

There are often threads on here complaining about call centre and customer service staff working remotely, but there's a cost of living crisis and those jobs aren't well paid. Actually being able to afford to travel into the workplace is a privilege not everyone has.

I'd like to see a comparison of emissions from commuting vs emissions from heating lots of individual homes before commenting

The fact those comparisons aren't easily available (if at all) speaks volumes.

In fact, when you brainstorm, and come up with a list of activities that generate emissions that the government itself undertakes and discover that not only don't they know, but they don't care, you start to wonder if you are being scammed.

Trivial example - how much CO2 for a rescheduled or missed hospital appointment ? No guessing - I want forensically assembled data. Remember, we're saving the planet here, so it's more important than keeping track of peoples pronouns. (Which is another activity no one can supply emissions figures for).

I watch what you do, and ignore what you say - it's a game changer If we all did it, the world would be a very different place, believe you me.

If we get granular, another thing we'd need to factor in the construction, space usage and maintenance of entire buildings that exist specifically for work which could be done elsewhere, and aren't used for anything else.

It's not all employers, I have my own office. I hate wfh too, I like the separation of going to work

It's also a shame the country seems to be on a campaign to dig up green spaces for new builds instead of taking advantage of something people want (home working), which costs everyone less, and turning city centre offices into quality housing/flats, where people are then well placed to put money into the high street and hospitality.

You’ve got to have a home to be able to work from it. We have a housing crisis and the main reason people want to live in city centres is proximity to work.

Sges and stages though.

We moved away from our central location and 5 minute walk to work in our late 20s in favour of gardens, parks and schools.

The hour long long commute was neither here nor there.

City centres are for cute 2 bed flats, culture and buzz. No way could we have fought city centre traffic to get the kids to school on time. Its much easier to use breakfast clubs and even better since the city centre office closed and relocated to a business park.

Flats are for students and young people and I think they are most affected by the housing market as they can't afford, nor do they want, a 3 bed suburban house with poor links to mightlife, fast food, pubs etc. Plus the cost of driving for them is frightening.

Don't apply for a work from home job then

This what my sister says. They end up still talking to each other online even though they're in the same building.

I think that's what so crazy-making about it.

It's nonsensical.

My stater's boss got in trouble because when her boss emailed her questions from the minister at 7.30 am she didn't reply.

"She usually replies to emails before 9am.

Well guess why she doesn't now?

Because she's battling rush hour traffic, then trying to find a parking space then walking back to the office between 7-9 these days.

My privilege' costs me £5k a year...but there are almost no jobs near me, despite living in a decent sized city. I would absolutely love not to indulge my privilege but I have a mortgage to pay so...

I can well believe it. Situations like yours are more often the way than some of the people complaining about remote working realise. I hope people in your area are able to access remote work when needed. 5k is a lot, even when you have it to pay, and the ones who can't are presumably even more screwed.

Offices where you cant get any work done because of the noise and constant interruptions, people using the office as a canteen and personal meeting room. I think multi-occupancy offices are a killer of productivity.
I'm expected to go in at least three times a week. Why? To write reports and do meetings which can be done at home. Sparse parking and damaged cars due to narrow parking spaces, expense of travelling covers the use of radiator at home.

Managers and policy makers need to get over themselves and outdated ways of working. The trouble is, those of us who work above and beyond because we appreciate the trust of working from home as well as get more done have it scuppered by some lazy entitled sh1ts who barely do a half day from under their duvets and demand all their expenses are paid. This about people who have no option but to go in - postmen, bank clerks, retail assistants, nurses. Working from home and peoples output needs to be managed and subject to a six month review.

I mean, I could apply for fully remote jobs. But I think it would be very very detrimental to my quality of life and mental health.

I think this is a weird unintended consequence of the rise of remote work really; there are fewer actual jobs in offices, so very few indeed in the local area of people looking for work.

I work in marketing and the market was wildly different pre-Covid. Now I can't get a job within an hours drive of my home, because there are none.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. Ive also found going in to be a very isolating experience.

Precovid I worked full time and always had good, meaningful relationships with at least some people. I had my own desk with my own drawer and my own chair. I had my place to sit and people to have a coffee with.

Fast forward to hybrid working. I have the hassle of packing up so much kit as I don’t have drawers or a locker. I turn up at the office like a cart horse sat somewhere random, the only place I could get as desks are oversubscribed. I sit with strangers - literally don’t even know their names. Maybe I say hi and do an intro. Maybe someone else from my team is in??? They may be sat on another floor.

I then sit on teams all day…

Its honestly extremely depressing.

This. I would love a hot desk but not set up like this and it’s impossible to book a desk and if you don’t then it’s your fault for not doing so quick enough. With no recognition if it’s not me without a desk it’s someone else.

you can tell the majority of companies are run by men and accountants.

I wfh nearly all the time. I actually used to like going into the office because I sat by people I knew and get on with. Now its hot desking and every single time I sit next to new people. It is lonely and isolating.

The rise of teams meetings is a hindrance and a blessing. It's helpful for remote, but it can be a PITA in the office esp when hot-desking. I've often worked in other firm's offices as there may be a team of people from different companies. Now though, so many people are in online meetings all the time ...and because it's teams and easy, there seem to be so many more. Things that used to be a quick phonecall or chat now have all and sundry in a meeting on.

Yep. My current office is a 500 mile round trip. I get told to go in every so often. Sometimes there is no one else in my team there. Other times managers who start before me go in, dump all their stuff at desks, and bugger off to an all day meeting leaving me to sit away from my team. What’s the point.