To ask for advice about work? Sick leave? I don’t know what to do

[MoralHighGroundGrandWizard]

Work is horrible. My manager is awful, bullying, aggressive. (She times lunch breaks of staff I manage, has stood over everyone shouting “I AM THE MANAGER OF THIS OFFICE YOU WILL DO AS I SAY”). I am the assistant manager. It is a high pressure job but not amazingly paid (NHS). I have been there 6 months. I found out the previous person in the job left because of the behaviour of the manager. She raised it with higher ups, it’s gone no where. I have raised the behaviour, nothing. I think my manager has actually put in a grievance against higher ups so they’re scared to go near her. It’s a nightmare. Of the 3 people who share an office with her, all of us are looking for other jobs.
I have got a secondment in the same position and same pay in another office just to get away (my predecessor also did a sideways move to get away in the same hospital). It is for a year. I got this a week ago and she has been even worse since I told her. she told me she no longer trusts me, is disappointed in me, and that I will start to see the “real” her. She has also told me I am no longer allowed to work remotely 1 day per week. I have raised this with HR and the higher manager who disagree with her but have told me I need to have that discussion with her.
I had today off annual leave and the dread and anxiety I have of returning to work tomorrow is crippling me right now. I am not sleeping well, because of thoughts of work and her behaviour and attitude. I just don’t know what to do. Everything is screaming at me to ring in sick, but also that might just make her behaviour worse.
does anyone have any advice? Walking away from her she follows you and shouts at you. Then you have to go back. I’ve raised it as high as I can, through every avenue I can (HR, management, Chief exec) and NOTHING happens.

I have been tempted to record my meetings and interactions with her. I just don’t know the legalities of it!
ive kept every email and most interactions - not all in one place but I might collage them to one book for ease.
i cannot afford to be dismissed even slightly. This is what terrifies me.

I was having a catch up with the chief exec about something else and she asked me so I told her the issues. I have a closed working relationship with her and have semi regular catch ups.
im a 6, and it’s 8 weeks as standard. I wish it was less.

NHS… public sector. Where this sort of awful manager is rife and also rife is the unwillingness to deal with it.

Tomorrow as soon as you get into work call your union rep. Get a meeting in with them tomorrow and discuss options. Write down dates and times of what has happened and how it has made you feel. Be factual. Write down when you have made complaints and escalated it.

you need the dignity at work policy, code of conduct and bullying and harassment at work policy.

you need to talk about making this formal. This isn’t an easy option and there are often unintended consequences - discuss this with your union.

your employer has a legal duty to ensure your well-being is protected. This includes from bullying.

you could go off with stress and start all this from sick leave. You could then ask for an OH referral and a stress risk assessment on your return (check your workplace stress policy - there will be one).

a formal grievance has a process and an outcome within a timeframe - there is also a right of appeal.

have you been there continuously for more than 2 years?

Thank you - I will look into this.

I have been in the trust 6 months, NHS 10 years. I think it goes on NHS experience though but let me know if I’m wrong?

OP, to a lay person who knows nothing of the inner workings of the NHS, I am HORRIFIED at your story! No one should have to suffer like this in order to do their job, no wonder they're desperate to attract new nursing staff, if management are allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour! There is absolutely NO WAY that I would put up with it, but then I'd probably not last 5 minutes, as I would F her up hill and down dale, if she behaved like this toward me. If she told me that I couldn't escalate the matter, I would have said 'Who the fuck do you think you are? You can't tell me what I can and can't do, you're nothing but a jumped up Hitler in knickers, so don't think you can shut me up, like you have all the others', and would have promptly reported her. However, I guess from what you, and other posters have said, this would probably have major repercussions for your career? It's disgraceful that with the NHS in the mess it's in, that anyone is allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour. What would happen if I pointed the newspapers to this thread? Could even that come back and bite you on the arse?

Go to your union. Ideally you could all submit a joint greivance. S/he sound absolutely awful. I'd ask her to explain every time she says something like "you are now going to see the real me''.

Handy to record these conversations on your phone (unless you are not allowed) and email her a verbatim copy.

I’d assume that would bite me on the arse somehow but no idea really. I’d prefer not to find out.

I've no advice for you. I had almost the exact same situation as yourself, but I worked for local government at the time. I was traumatised for years afterwards, i still wish her ill and that is not like me at all. She absolutely tortured our team (as individuals, not as a whole) and tried to play us off against each other. I went off sick, I went down every avenue - even the union (unprofessionally) said they'd had so many complaints over decades about her that it was no surprise. Ended up getting a secondment she tried to block by giving me a bad reference then gleefully telling me about it in front of everyone. Just a horror of a woman.

Don't call in sick, I know that sounds so attractive right now but eventually you have to go in. Get your secondment and leave with your head held high. These people exist and senior management will not get rid of them.

Union and goes without saying record everything, try and get it in email .

Hope your time goes quickly before your next job

I’m so sorry you’ve experienced similar. It’s so awful. It makes me feel so powerless. I just keep thinking “I’m a grown woman!!!” In disbelief.
I just don’t get the lack of response from
senior management at all. She’s not good at her job - she’s an awful person. Why is she even there!

Ive read all your posts.

I think all three if you should submit a formal greivance, complaining about her bullying behaviour and mistreatment of staff. Make a list of every occasion you can each think of a d taje to tge greivance meeting with you. In your greivance, ask for her to be replaced by a different manager whilst an investigation takes place or for you all to be moved temporarily.

Copy the greivance to your union and get hold of the greivance policy.

If you go off sick or back off she's won.

Will depend, are you in a probationary period? I’d ask your union rep for advice on this. If it is considered that you are within the first 2 years of employment things are a difficult because currently you can only bring a tribunal case on the basis of discrimination. Thats worst case scenario though and you can raise a grievance no matter what and the legal requirement for your well-being stands no matter what.

Not in probation period (I’m not sure the NHS even has them! No trust I’ve worked in has) and I get all the benefits of having worked there for 10 years no matter where I work (sick pay, annual leave etc).

@MoralHighGroundGrandWizard I know exactly how you're feeling and I could cry for you. The anxiety is crippling and you are being bullied.

I was also called to speak with a director about something else but he said he needed to talk to me about how I was being treated by my manager. I told him everything, he said he'd sort it and within the year he was managed out. They protected her and I've never felt more insignificant in my life.

You are significant. You are important and you do matter. Go through a grievance if it won't affect your secondment but don't risk it otherwise. It's not worth your mental health if you've already got an out.

You can't record people without their permission and you can't use it as evidence. Had very similar story from my previous workplace.

Thank you so much.
I am so sorry you’ve experienced this too.
I want to put a grievance in. I want it to change. But part of me just wants to put myself first and get out. Ride out the secondment (new manager said she would try and make it permanent; if not I would look for something else around month 8/9 so I didn’t go back).

Thanks for confirming as I had been tempted to.

Every time she shouts at you start recording her, who cares if it is legal or illegal, every time she says something, turn on your phone and just say today is x day at x time and x manager is shouting at me that I cant escalate a grievance to HR. Witness to this are x person, y person and z person.

X manager can you say that out loud so I have proof please.

Keep it up, then write to HR and tell them if they do not act on this bullying, intimidation and harassment you will take legal advice and sue them for constructive dismissal.

Make notes of dates, days, times in this email to HR and tell them they have 7 days to rectify this issue or they will be meeting with you the union rep and your solicitor.

Then follow through, who cares about the NHS and them allowing this bullying. I know it is easy for me to say, but I would slaughter her and them at the same time

Don't do it, you can get disciplinary action for it. You need to have witnesses and every single action in writing:
4.5.2024 8:10am Manager X said that.....

I had the same story, not NHS though, HR won't take any filmed/recorded evidence, it's illegal. I had 46 A4 papers of "facts" for investigation.

You are informing them they are being filmed in a place of work. The same as cctv or a ring doorbell.

even if it isn’t legal it will have influence and will hopefully make the bully step back and think

You signing agreement to be filmed when signing contract, company handbook, etc. Be very careful with advice like this. I almost got disciplinary for it.

Thank you. I won’t record her. But I will start follow up emails confirming conversations and writing things down more.

If that’s the case then things would be easier. Get the policies I’ve recommended and have a read but can your union tomorrow first thing.