To hate Americanisms...?

[Groof]

I think maybe because it feels like all English-speaking cultures are becoming boring and homogenous.

New ones I've noticed that people in the UK didn't routinely say five years ago but are now EVERYWHERE:

• birth control (instead of 'contraception' or 'the pill')
• wait list (instead of waiting list)
• reach out

Which ones do you hate or AIBU?

Do you think most people understand coding languages?

The French indeed want a standard use of their language. I don’t see anything wrong with that. I’m not sure how that fossilises their culture…rather it makes communication easier. There is a clear rule book, and people know what to expect.

What if American standardised English did win out? Wouldn’t it save a lot of hassle concerning different spellings and usages? Again, I think this is about nationalistic pride, not really about the desire for clear communication.

Do you think most people understand coding languages?

No. Most people don't understand eg Welsh or Basque either. Doesn't mean they're 'arcane' in the sense of mysterious. Arcane in the sense of only a few understanding each language doesn't imply any inherent issue with their understandability, just that they're irrelevant to most people.

But maybe these languages. aren’t irrelevant. Tech controls a lot of stuff…including information exchange, and most people don’t understand the basics of how it works. They think it is too hard, and I’m afraid that is a myth promoted by the tech companies.

It is to people’s benefit to understand how coding languages work, why they work that way, and that leads to understanding of how computers work like they do. If they understood it, some basics about algorithms, etc, then maybe they would be more empowered?

I also don’t think it would do any harm for everyone in the UK to know a little Welsh. Promotes understanding, no?

What if American standardised English did win out? Wouldn’t it save a lot of hassle concerning different spellings and usages? Again, I think this is about nationalistic pride, not really about the desire for clear communication.

Oh, I'm perfectly happy using American English as the standard in my company. If you're communicating with a global audience it's a good idea to use a standard and that's the sensible choice whether little englanders pining for the days when the map was pink agree or not. That 'standard' for spelling is pretty well defined.

But for many purposes, the richness and nuance of local dialect and idioms are worth retaining, IMO.
Do you object to people learning and using Welsh or Gaelic?

No, clearly not. Farewell........

of course I don’t object to using Welsh or Gaelic. See my post above concerning Welsh. It is a United Kingdom…maybe everyone should speak all three languages? Why not?

I speak Spanish, can read Latin and some Italian. What I am saying is that having a standardised language makes communication easier and more straightforward. Maybe in the UK where communication is anything but straightforward (nuance, things left unsaid), that might seems odd to you, I’m not sure.

So what's the difference between someone speaking a different language such as welsh, vs using a non standard English dialect?
There's already effectively standard American English and standard British English. There are circumstances where it's appropriate to use them and others where it's not required.

I grew up being told that our local dialect words weren't "speaking properly". So in answer to a question at home I'd say "aye" but at school I'd say "yes"

Now there's been a complete turnaround and local dialect is very much encouraged. Some people never move out of the area and find it hard to speak proper English.

Now there's been a complete turnaround and local dialect is very much encouraged. Some people never move out of the area and find it hard to speak proper English.

But surely they are exposed to "proper English" through media, especially television. As for "aye," I would argue that it's as proper as "yes" depending on context. It's a Scots word, as well as an older English word. It is in no way substandard or improper.

This is weird. Do the folk who get irritated by different English dialects also feel a sense of disgust and disappointment when they hear a foreign language like French? Are we also going to list the Italian phrases which really get our goats.

Tell that to the Welsh or to the French. There is a difference between a language and a dialect.

This is about people thinking British English is better than American English, and being resentful American English is getting standardised. That’s all. Look at the title of the thread. Standardised English allows for better communication. It probably is going to be American English that will become standardised.

But for many purposes, the richness and nuance of local dialect and idioms are worth retaining, IMO

I agree. My late mother was a native American. Speaking grammatically correct English was mercilessly drilled into American schoolchildren in past decades resulting in a loss of most cultural language nuance. The message was "assimilate, assimilate, assimilate....

Have you not heard of High German? Luther standardised German with his Bible, and that developed into modern German. Before WWI, local patois was common in France. After the troops were nationalised, then there was more of a common French Language. There was a historian named Eugen Weber who wrote a book about this called From Peasants into Frenchmen.
www.sup.org/books/history/peasants-frenchmen

As the world globalises, English will get more standardised. Hopefully it leads to more standardised grammar, spelling and clearer communication.

‘Can I get / have’ is normal speak in my part of Scotland

‘May I’ is posh. I don’t know anyone that says that.

Right. I think there are movements in the States for tribes to have a language they speak amongst themselves in response. But on the other hand, doesn’t learning to speak grammatically correct English help you out in the wider world?

But on the other hand, doesn’t learning to speak grammatically correct English help you out in the world?

Absolutely! People are judged by the way they speak and communicate in writing. That's just a fact of life. But I think it's worthwhile to encourage an interest in local dialect and colloquialisms. Most of us write much less formally on an online forum than we would professionally. Or use slang in casual conversation that we'd never use at work or school. It's sad to let the regional differences in language die out completely.

Why is that sad? I’m genuinely curious. It might be mildly interesting for historical purposes and the OED, but I guess I would rather not hassle with different spellings, grammar, etc. It would be marvellous to me to be able to communicate freely and directly with anyone else in the world…all the same language, and would seem to me to stop a lot of misunderstandings. I sadly don’t see the Babelfish coming to us anytime soon, to paraphrase Hitchhiker’s Guide.

As the world globalises, English will get more standardised. Hopefully it leads to more standardised grammar, spelling and clearer communication.

I think (hope, even) that a fairly standard 'global English' will emerge. I'd predict it will be a somewhat simplified version of standard American English.

But that in no way precludes the continued existence and indeed proliferation of other forms of English. These dialects can continue to be used, in much the same way as minority languages are, but perhaps with more cross-cultural enrichment.

I sadly don’t see the Babelfish coming to us anytime soon, to paraphrase Hitchhiker’s Guide.

Oh I don't know. I don't see why google translate etc couldn't be trained on all sorts of dialects of English as well as other languages.

Why is that sad? I’m genuinely curious

Because language is part of your history? There are phrases and expressions that remind me of my long dead grandparents. After most other memories have faded I can still clearly recall the way they spoke. I'm not suggesting that these things need to be in common use, but it's worthwhile to maintain some connection to the language of our past.

This.
If you said "Please may I have" in my local shops they'd think you were Hyacinth Bouquet 😄

@RitaIncognita I grew up in the 60s/70s. Speaking in local dialect other than at home or with friends was very much considered substandard and was definitely unacceptable.

FYI, it's, "(Y'all) have a blessed day", if you want to convey the meaning you have in mind.

Yes, for academic writing, all those various styles are indeed silly.

But everyday spoken language is a different kettle of fish, and online language is another.

Written language tends to be more formal, at least among people who have enough education to produce it and to care about producing it. A lot of people don't read, so their spelling, grammar, and punctuation in written English are poor, and so is their comprehension. You can't force people to care when they can get by with the tools they have.

As i say, we fit all spell phonetically and tro di grammar rules komot di window.

If pipo don’t wan mek themselves understood, deh get dat choice. But dem be marginalising themselves.

And wetin be dis kettle for fish wey you speak

Seems better to me to teach a standardised English and grammar so we can understand each other and invest in education. About 14% of the world can’t read, and that’s a tragedy. It is one in three in sub Saharan Africa.