Group of men rescued from Scarfell Pike

[MrsSkylerWhite]

Up to their waists in snow, apparently.
What sort of idiot decides to go on a hike when there’s an amber warning, meaning risk to life, in place?

If you want to kill yourselves, go ahead. Don’t expect to be rescued though when you inevitably get into trouble, putting other people’s lives at risk.

I know nothing about this incident but I live in Cumbria, have volunteered with mountain rescue and fundraise for them and have hiked and climbed in winter in the UK and Europe all my life. I would never hesitate to go out to help someone injured or lost in the fells because it could just as easily be me.

Hiking in snowy conditions is pretty normal for mountaineers. I was walking the fells yesterday though not Scafell, I have camped on Scafell in a snowhole when doing winter ML training. Driving to the hills is probably more dangerous.

Even if these people were inexperienced or unprepared they deserved to be rescued. The most experienced people I know have all needed help at times - we pretty much always walk people off or carry them off. It's pretty rare for helicopters to go out, that's only if it's a cardiac event or a possible spinal injury. Most often people needing help have hurt their legs and/or just run out of wind and need food, drink and warmth to get them safely back.

In public health terms the benefits physically and mentally if enjoying the natural world massively outweigh these risks. I would always encourage people to be prepared, work within your fitness, take a basic first aid kid, plenty of food and don't rely exclusively on phones to navigate etc. but please get out there and enjoy our lovely hills and mountains and call for help without shame if you need it, it's usually easier to help someone sooner than later, sometimes it's as easy as giving directions. We won't judge..

People are always going to want to take risks. You won’t be able to stop them. I imagine many people on rescue teams understand that.

It wasn't a mistake.

It was a conscious choice to carry on with a dangerous activity in spite of clear warnings about the consequences

Total fuck cunts for putting rescue teams at risk.

Does the bill get sent to them?

There are risks and adventure , and there is testosterone fuelled idiocy

I suspect the latter myself

( regular hill goer here )

I live here. I'm fully well aware how many people there are walking every day in all conditions. Some are adequately equipped, many are not. I also know people in 2 MRTs and they are increasingly frustrated with the rising numbers of poorly equipped, and often totally unequipped, people who need rescuing, the sort of people who seem non plussed that a walk up e.g. Scafell, Helvellyn etc is not just an uphill version of their usual Sunday afternoon stroll. My view is that the increase is directly linked to social media trends. I also don't think our MRTs should be used to facilitate "training" for more exciting experiences overseas.

Lol. Of course they do! They'll rescue both just the same, but you're nuts if you think they don't know and talk about the difference.

DH does a lot of hiking/climbing and he went up the brecon beacons with a friend on the weekend in hope of some snow. They go fully prepared with all the right kit.
Doesn't mean they don't deserve to be rescued if something did happen. They dont take unnecessary risks. DH did a solo hike a few weeks back and turned back as decided the route he was following was too risky.

We all take risks every day to varying degrees.

Totally agree with you re numbers of people unprepared after seeing an Instagram post although it isn't clear that is what happened here

But on preparing for mountaineering elsewhere there isn't an alternative. If you want to do anything from a winter season in the Alps to tackling Denali your best bet for getting winter fit is getting out constantly in the best winter conditions the UK offers. Usually that means Scotland, sometimes Cumbria or North Wales. The fall-back if you slip on a ridge and break your ankle will always be MRT. We can't close mountains in winter and even well prepared people sometimes fall.

We don't have private rescue operations here as they do in the Alps. MR is it. But since most of us have also enjoyed the mountains precisely for that reason in our time few of us resent helping well equipped hikers and climbers get to safety. Personally I don't resent helping ill equipped people either and am old enough to remember that we whinged about people doing Crib Goch in trainers when I was young too. Young people do stupid things. I may have been one of them.

Should’ve left them there

My brother is a volunteer with the coastguard rescue service. The vast majority of rescues they do involve (adult) people who have made very stupid choices, some of which has put the volunteers' lives at great risk.

These men are sounding like they were being stupid..

But I do think people use stories like these to pour vitriol over climbers and hikers.
It's absolute bollocks that no one should climb in an amber weather warning or in snowy conditions.
This is people passion..
You probably risk your life more going for a drive.. yet you don't sit at home thinking 'can I really do without milk for a night' you just drive to the shop and take the risk.. and no one foams at the mouth about it. Because most people drive.
Leave mountaineers alone.
Fine to say these men were being ridiculous but it's not fine to suggest experienced climbers should never go out in bad weather or snow because of the risk.
And it's not fine to try and use mountain rescue as some kind of son story "these poor sad men had to go out and rescue people" THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME PEOPLE!! most of mountain rescue are extremely passionate climbers who volunteer because of their love of the mountains and the outdoors. You can bet your bottom dollar they've all been out climbing in treacherous conditions for the challenge of it. As someone upthread pointed out, a snowy day on scafell isn't even approaching a normal day in the alps.
And accidents can happen to even the most experienced abd prepared of climbers.
This makes me sad because I love the mountains. I'm not an ice climbers so I'd never go out in snow.. but I'm not the fittest person out there. I just love climbing.
I can imagine if I lost my footing and fell to my death the amount of people on social media who'd be braying on about how stupid I was and how I never should have tried to climb blah blah blah... despite that being my hobby and one of my life's greatest joys.
Mountain rescue know people have accidents. Of course they warn people about taking climbing mountains seriously and taking the outdoors seriously in general.. being informed abd well equipped. But I really don't think they need this level of vitriol about outdoor enthusiasts in general.
I have an old school friend who volunteers for mountain rescue and he is also a keen caver. So he regularly puts himself into extremely dangerous situations for fun.
These people are one abd the same.
You can't say "no one should be out!!"
You can decide it's not a risk you want to take... but other people do want to take it because it's personally important to them. Leave them alone.

Personally, I think all those rescued out at sea on a silly dinghy or up a mountain side should be charged regardless of the level of experience you think you have.

Maybe more of these signs around the place would help!

I recall when, 25 odd years ago, SLSA (Surf Life Saving Australia) tried to get a law through to BAN anyone from entering the ocean in Queensland unless it was 'between the flags'. It was pointed out they didn't own the beaches, nor were they legally obligated to attempt a dangerous rescue off remote beaches....

I haven't followed the details of this case much- what was the level of the weather warning? I'm curious! I thought it was measured in yellow/amber/red, not on a mild/moderate/severe scale. Is it different in the mountains?

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

Thanks for the balanced viewpoint from someone actually involved in the rescue services.

it's not fine to suggest experienced climbers should never go out in bad weather or snow because of the risk.

I'm not sure many people on this thread are really saying that. More that most of the people who are, or know, experienced people would have looked at the weather and said, nope, not that walk today.

And isn't it more that everyone should behave responsibly and assess risks, think about equipment etc within their level of fitness and expertise?

Obviously sometimes people will get it wrong, and accidents do happen.

The leader who survived actually died in the hills some years later IIRC 🙁

Excellent, so we should all just sit around and get fat and depressed, then?

No, do as you please. Just don't expect others to risk their lives to save you, if you decide to partake imprudently in dangerous pursuits.

It's hardly necessary to be a mountain climber, deep sea diver or spelunker to maintain good health. Come on.

Agree that they should be fined/made to pay for the cost of the rescue - and if there is currently no legislation to cover this, there should be.

They're Twats.

But there was a thread on here with someone asking "should I ignore the amber weather warning, only travel in an emergency, and drive from Kent to somewhere up North, I fancy going to a party" - and there were loads of responses saying 'yes, do'

(can't remember the exact locations)

In France if a helicopter turns out to rescue you you are asked for your credit card when you are picked up.

MRTs are volunteers. No one is forcing them to go out. How on earth would it make sense to fine people for calling for help for people who willingly volunteer?

And charging could deter people for calling for help, or maybe cause them to delay asking for help, potentially making the eventual rescue harder.

I very much hope that those helped make meaningful donations to the rescue teams.

I have walking holidays on the Lakes and always donate to the MRT on the day we arrive!

I see from Facebook that one of the teams have had their new trainee members out on the fells this weekend to test their snow and ice skills.

By that logic, no one should ever be rescued from a car wreck, as driving a car is one of the most dangerous things that you can do.

We’ve been expecting heavy snow on the weekend for a week. It’s not unexpected. Most of us took precautions and were prepared. No one decided to go climb a mountain expect them.