Can we do something about William and Charles profiting from the NHS etc ?

[Ukisgaslit]

If You haven’t seen it , the Times and Channel 4 Dispatches programme did some proper old fashioned investigative journalism and revealed how Charles and William via the Duchys are charging schools, the NHS and charities ( some they are patron of!) to use ‘their’ land.
It is not ‘their’ land - it is state land , as the crown estates are. The Duchys were overlooked in 1760 when George 111 handed his holdings over in return for annual handouts from the state - they were overlooked as they were worthless then.
They have made the Windsors billions since the mid 20th century and no corporation tax or capital gains tax paid. William recently refused to continue providing the little financial information that his father offered.

Aside from the obvious fact that the king is in a unique position, being above the law whether we like it or not ( though why is William treated as also above the law?) surely they are humiliated to be revealed as ripping off schools and charities and hospitals?

Where is the Windsor mea culpa and offer to repay with interest? Answer came there none.

So AIBU to expect MPs to please act and fold the Duchys into the crown estate ? The UK is in a weakened state and allowing this feudal greed to continue unchecked diminishes our society further .

@PoloMum
Yes I think you are right .

If anyone is reading this and hasn’t seen Dispatches - leave mumsnet go and watch it then vote !

Thanks to the Bliar legacy the NHS has paid billions in PFI (rent by another name) to landlords over the last 20 years. We are approaching o£30 billion already, and it’s not expected to peak until the 2030s. We will be paying the price for their stupidity for years to come. The total expected cost is £80 billion. And that’s for assets that only cost around £15 billion in the first place, though I accept that ongomg maintenance and repairs isn’t in that but is in the total £80 billion costs.

But that’s the real scandal, and bothers me more than paying the market rent for some ambulance parking. Sure, it’d be better if we didn’t pay that either, but the NHs wastes multiples of that £11m every single week…

@StillTryingToKeepGoing

NHS waste is another issue for another thread .

This is about the billionaire head of state taking millions from the NHS for his own pocket - tax free I’d add

This is about Duchys being outside the law and whether that should continue to be tolerated in 2025

Heritage museum site Poldark Mine has been closed for 3 years as the current owner wanted to make a stand against feudalism and refused to pay rent to the Duchy (who owns no freehold, but the 'mineral rights').

The Duchy took the owner to court, despite no mining activity being undertaken for over 200 years.

Oh sorry @StillTryingToKeepGoing i meant to reply to @Tryingtokeepgoing !

You have very similar usernames

You’re absolutely right, @Ukisgaslit , getting rid of the monarchy would be a huge thing, and I doubt if, as a nation, we’re going to be allowed to have another referendum anytime soon.
But maybe, just maybe, if there’s more interest and journalistic coverage of their finances, that might get through to people.
It’s on my ‘to read’ list but Norman Baker’s book ‘And What Do You Do’ looks at this in more depth.

I’ve heard of similar things in the Scilly isles
Windsors not at all popular there

@JustSawJohnny
”I knew Charles, and now William, made millions annually from the Duchy estate but that it be at the expense of their 'people' and charities is nothing short of shameful.”

Yes - this is exactly what has prompted me to start this thread . Charging the state services we all pay for and need - it’s that fact I can’t get over .

I knew about the Duchys and the fact that they were above the law etc but I think it was the journalists who uncovered the fact that William and Charles were charging charities and hospitals and schools. I bet it took a lot of digging . It’s not exactly easy to find out about anything related to the Duchys and they will have wanted this kept quiet .
If they ever do respond no doubt Wiliam and Charles will have been ‘unaware’
As usual .

If it’s their land it’s their land.
I think the Duchy of Cornwall has been owned by the crown since Edward 3rd (1337) for example.
The state has built on it and used it without having to buy it so far. Like anything if no rent is to be paid the state will need to buy it off the owners.
A lot of that land is now worth a lot of money, in the long run it’s always best to own and not rent but can the country afford to buy.
Id prefer a reduced rent ( I have no idea how much they are currently paying though ) as we’re not in a position to do much else

I know someone who works in this area. A lot of the PFI contracts haven’t been upheld on contractor side. They haven’t maintained the assets. They are inundated with work taking contractors to court to overturn these contracts.

Luckily the contractors have done such a bad job they are winning a lot of the time. Hopefully by the time 2030s rolls around a lot of these will contracts will be terminated.

Wow! That is awful

@SavingTheBestTillLast

That ‘if’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting !

If there is a legal basis for their claim let’s see it .
Lets see the legal documents which absolve them of following the law of the land too - there will be a heck of a lot of back taxes due otherwise

I really have absolutely no idea about any of this but in simple terms.

If the Duchy were to be sold then it would just fall into another person/company profiteering from the NHS etc. would it not be better to allow Charles and William to keep it as is, and then make them pay tax on it?

I apologise if I have completely misunderstood here, I think I should watch the despatches programme.

Please do some basic searches about the Duchy - as OP statement and the programme have given an incorrect/biased view. They do pay tax and do use much of the money for charitable purposes. They were also the first to give huge sums to, I believe, farmers after foot and mouth - shaming the government into giving support. Can't find the actual article tho.

Do watch the programme @Georgieporgie29

William and Charles paying all their taxes would be wonderful - I wouldn’t turn my nose up at that!
But it’s not just the money. The Duchys are a medieval remnant / unclear legal status that shifts to suit the whim of the Windsors . They have no place in 2025 and should be included into the crown estates . The crown estates revenues are all sent to treasury .

Agree
The ‘if’ would be difficult to prove but then this country would have to prove a lot of ‘ifs’ if we’re going back to 1337 and beyond.

Watch Dispatches - searches will most likely bring up the Duchys own website ( now why would that be?)

I have not given incorrect info - I have said the Windsors pay ‘voluntary’ income tax ( this amount is nowhere near what it should be but - surprise surprise no scrutiny allowed) not corporation tax or capital gains tax as the law states

But ignore me- watch dispatches

As Prince of Wales he is Duke of Cornwall.

PPP/PFI was an absolute mess and HUGE financial drain. I worked in that area in the 2000s and the money that was wasted and spent was absolutely outrageous. Even before the damn hospitals were built.

Does this apply to anyone who charges the nhs rent for using it’s land/buildings?

guy’s and st Thomas’ charity for example own a lot of land and facilities which they get a massive income from. That’s not the nhs, the money isn’t used for the nhs, that’s their own charity outside their nhs work.

pfi’s, Richard Branson etc all make income rom leasing their buildings to the nhs- and the police and other services.

@Maray1967

Im aware that William is Duke of Cornwall.
My point was - defenders will say Charles is king hence he’s above the law in this benighted realm
Why is the Duke of Cornwall also above the law? On what basis? He isn’t head of state

@Ohnonotmeagain
answered a few pages back

I like the Royal family.

I like that the Duchies exist. They afford a true independence from government of the day.

I presume that the Duchies only charge a rent that is fair (less than many profit developers) and know that they do pay tax and do invest moneys back into charities and upkeep of their assets for the long term. The Duchies and the hospitals can talk and work out their own solutions without government intervening.

All moneys to government - no - I don't trust them to not invest where best to ensure themselves re election. I don't trust them to look after natural habitats of creatures unable to earn money or vote. Sustainability of environments is important. Money to unfashionable charities is less likely by government.

Explanation as it currently stands ( not exactly an in-depth Google I know )
Assume it’s exempt because the Duchy always goes to the future King 🤷‍♀️

Yes that’s about it . Windsors say so is the entire basis of it
a house of cards