Can we do something about William and Charles profiting from the NHS etc ?

[Ukisgaslit]

If You haven’t seen it , the Times and Channel 4 Dispatches programme did some proper old fashioned investigative journalism and revealed how Charles and William via the Duchys are charging schools, the NHS and charities ( some they are patron of!) to use ‘their’ land.
It is not ‘their’ land - it is state land , as the crown estates are. The Duchys were overlooked in 1760 when George 111 handed his holdings over in return for annual handouts from the state - they were overlooked as they were worthless then.
They have made the Windsors billions since the mid 20th century and no corporation tax or capital gains tax paid. William recently refused to continue providing the little financial information that his father offered.

Aside from the obvious fact that the king is in a unique position, being above the law whether we like it or not ( though why is William treated as also above the law?) surely they are humiliated to be revealed as ripping off schools and charities and hospitals?

Where is the Windsor mea culpa and offer to repay with interest? Answer came there none.

So AIBU to expect MPs to please act and fold the Duchys into the crown estate ? The UK is in a weakened state and allowing this feudal greed to continue unchecked diminishes our society further .

@BustingBaoBun I don't doubt there would be an outcry but I am just stating facts rather than conjecture.

There would be an even bigger outcry if the Crown Estate reverted to the royal family. It is legally possible although I imagine the court case would be very protracted! The Communists made their own lives much easier by murdering the Russian royal family and confiscating their assets - I sincerely hope it never comes to that here.

@Throughthebluebells

I am not ‘making thing up’ as you put it

From the select committee report
5. There is no clear understanding whether the Duchy's Crown Exemption from corporation tax and capital gains tax produces adverse consequences for competitors which do pay these taxes. The Duchy is engaged in a range of business activities like other commercial enterprises, with the difference that other businesses are subject to the usual rules on corporation and capital gains tax. This tax exemption might mean that competing businesses do not have a level playing field on which to operate. The Duchy and the Treasury pointed out that the Duke of Cornwall does, voluntarily, pay income tax on income derived from the Duchy, and that the Duchy's tax position had been accepted by Parliament.
Recommendation: The Treasury should examine the impact on the marketplace of the Duchy engaging in commercial transactions while exempt from tax.

Here is a more recent question from an MP

the reply will by now be familiar to you . It’s the old Windsor ‘ private when it suits them , public when it suits them ‘

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2020-01-30/hl1184

If MP’s want to continue to ask questions to which the answer is already clearly established, well that’s up to them. Seems an odd use of parliamentary time but hey go, perhaps their constituents have nothing else to worry about.

I can only assume from your post @AzurePanda that you have not read the report nor the extract I posted.
The entire point of the recommendation contained in the report was that nothing had been established. Did you miss that ? They were asking for more scrutiny and clarity

But hey go ahead and dismiss the work of a select commiitee. It’s more evidence that to be a royalist in 2025 you need to blind yourself to the evidence all around you

I was referring to your second post about the question from the MP. I’m sure you’re aware that Select Committees make recommendations all the time.

So you accept the recommendations of the 2013 select committee @AzurePanda ?

It doesn’t matter whether I accept it or not, such recommendations are non binding so don’t mean or change anything on their own. The Duchies are not corporations and are therefore not liable for corporation tax. That’s the case under current law.

Whilst people are so accepting of every single thing the Monarch and his extended family are part of... there will be little change because it's banging a head against a brick wall.

Personally I think every tax funded organisation should be liable to scrutiny and I take my hat off to those who try and unravel the financial position of the Monarchy.

For those who haven't read it, I can thoroughly recommend "And What do you Do" by Norman Baker. It has recently been updated to include Andrew. Norman Baker is an ex Privy Council member, ex Politician, ex Minister, and he knows his stuff. To say it is an eye opener is an undersatement

Norman Baker is also an ardent conspiracy theorist fwiw.

That's interesting. Would you like to elaborate on that? He is hardly an 'ardent conspiracy theorist'.

If you mean David Kelly, I am inclined to agree with him

Anyway, I suggest an ardent Royalist like you maybe read his book? Really worthwhile. And it is not conspiracy given his position on the Privy Council.

Not to me turn the Government agreed to top up their crown estate profits during the slump they had in 2020 cos of the pandemic, only because it's linked to the sovereign grant. How many businesses lost profits and didn't get top ups or bailouts, making people redundant in the process. Yet the Royals with all their personal wealth accepted a bailout.

@BustingBaoBun even the Guardian refers to him as a conspiracy theorist.

Actually I’m not an ardent royalist by any stretch of the imagination. I think there is a really valid and interesting debate to be had about the Monarchy but this thread isn’t it. It’s full of smears, half truths and downright inaccuracies. I’m giving it up now - @Spectre8 ’s post is another example and I no longer have the energy. I’m not even British!

That's your take on it @AzurePanda
Others disagree

@AzurePanda
If you are not British I don’t understand your position on the royals .
Are you a tax payer here?

@Ukisgaslit yes, I’m a top rate taxpayer.

Thanks - I didn’t need to know the rate lol but you are paying out a higher percentage than William and charles then! So are we and so are many people ( the majority on this site I’d guess)

As I have said previously, this was a question from the Public Accounts Committee in 2013 and has since been completely answered in full and the Treasury accepted the explanations.

The recommendation to the Treasury that they should 'examine the impact on the marketplace' was also carried out, and the tax treatment was found to have no significant impact. The full findings were presented in January 2014

"The Treasury and the Duchy of Cornwall estate do not believe that the Duchy’s tax status impacts on the marketplace.The Duke is currently taxed at 45% marginal income tax rate, and pays tax on his income from the
Duchy as agreed within the Memorandum of Understanding with HMRC renewed as recently as March 2013.
The Duchy estate is neither a corporation nor a property trader, and the vast majority of its property holdings are held for the long term as core holdings. All of the capital proceeds realised from the Duchy`s property sales must be reinvested within the business, and are not distributable.
Many other commercial property organisations have a broadly comparable tax treatment to the Duchy estate. For example Real Estate Investment Trusts (REIT), which are a commonly used property vehicle, exempt capital gains from tax and treat the investor as taxable on the income (as HRH is treated).
Turning to recent transactions, the Duchy has sold only 11 properties during the last 3 years at over £500,000, together with completing various land sales at Poundbury, Dorset. All of the properties were either sold on the open market or to tenants as part of a property reorganisation at a market price. The Duchy has offices located within close proximity to the properties which it owns and has
very good knowledge of local market prices. External agents are employed to market the majority of property sales. Land disposals at Poundbury are negotiated at market value and tendered on a regular open book, basis, including overage arrangements, so that best prices are achieved.
The Duchy has only acquired one property over £500,000 in the last 3 years which was purchased on the open market. From the expenditure perspective there have been several major property improvement works all of which were tendered in the open market."

Also in response the Public Accounts Committee the Government stated:

"The Government believes that The Duke and Duchess of Cornwall are entitled to the same level of privacy about their tax affairs as any other taxpayer. There is no requirement placed upon private individuals to disclose their accounts or tax to public scrutiny, and should an individual choose to do so then it should be
at that person’s discretion to prescribe the extent of the information disclosed and its format."

You can disagree as much as you like, but this is a point of law and any individual is entitled to rely on it.

Ironically the Chair of the Public Accounts Committee that raised those questions about the royals tax affairs was Baroness Hodge who herself was found to be the beneficiary of a Liechtenstein foundation and a Panamanian family trust that didn't pay tax!

Exactly right. Disgraceful when they were doing fewer engagements and incurring less 'official expense' albeit of necessity.

Also worth noting the grasping millionaire-in-his-own-right Michael Tindall claimed furlough payments which no-one seems to remember now he's being wheeled on as and when to plug the gaps.

This appeared in a feed today and made me think of youse ...

😁

I reckon a naked protestor would still be slower to get arrested than someone in a #Not My King tee at a coro.

Totally agree: they are ripping off the Nation with their greed.

YABU to expect a business not to charge for the use of its assets. Councils and the crown estate also charge. Whether it remains appropriate for individuals (PE, KC) to benefit from those businesses is a different matter