Can we do something about William and Charles profiting from the NHS etc ?

[Ukisgaslit]

If You haven’t seen it , the Times and Channel 4 Dispatches programme did some proper old fashioned investigative journalism and revealed how Charles and William via the Duchys are charging schools, the NHS and charities ( some they are patron of!) to use ‘their’ land.
It is not ‘their’ land - it is state land , as the crown estates are. The Duchys were overlooked in 1760 when George 111 handed his holdings over in return for annual handouts from the state - they were overlooked as they were worthless then.
They have made the Windsors billions since the mid 20th century and no corporation tax or capital gains tax paid. William recently refused to continue providing the little financial information that his father offered.

Aside from the obvious fact that the king is in a unique position, being above the law whether we like it or not ( though why is William treated as also above the law?) surely they are humiliated to be revealed as ripping off schools and charities and hospitals?

Where is the Windsor mea culpa and offer to repay with interest? Answer came there none.

So AIBU to expect MPs to please act and fold the Duchys into the crown estate ? The UK is in a weakened state and allowing this feudal greed to continue unchecked diminishes our society further .

William has declined. He is not following what his father did, and has provided no information at all. You may think that's OK. I don't.

I agree 👏

I've just watched it and I'm gob smacked. I'm going to say that William doesn't perhaps know the ins and outs of it all. I hope he watched the dispatch program.

Why can't they be forced to charge a peppercorn rent to NHS and schools and pay corporation tax

It's hard to believe W has been unaware of all that goes on when he had eight to ten years advice prior to becoming boss and has been described by the previous Duchy secretary as being 'very involved'.

The recent reports have him taking a very active interest too, sending numerous WhatsApps in relation to the estate.

Seems he can get his lazy arse into gear after all when it comes to his own interests...

www.aol.com/entertainment/very-involved-prince-william-manages-140433011.html

Why can't they be forced to charge a peppercorn rent to NHS and schools

Why focus on the royals, surely it should be all landlords that are required to charge peppercorn rents to NHS and schools, perhaps to charities in general.

Yep include all the PFI buildings that are making a huge profit from emergency services and hospitals.

that won’t go down well.

it’s a bit like social housing. Maybe if all the NHS buildings and land hadn’t been sold off there wouldn’t be any need to pay commercial rents.

Lets just focus on the Royals, what this thread is about. I mean I have lots of opinions for policies I would like to see for wider business and landlords, but that is not the subject of this thread.

Nope, not really unless you're setting out to punish them in particular. By focusing on them you're setting the precedent and it needs to be applied to all in order to be fair.

@BigFatLiar

So you agree with the critics then and Charles and William should have all their legal opt outs removed ?
me too - level playing field and all equal under the law .
Glad you agree

Indeed but we need to give them the ability to restructure the various dutchies etc in the same way that other landowners do. I think the Duke of Westmister doesn't pay inheritance tax on his properties due to the way they're structured. Charles and William need the same opportunity even if it means the properties and businesses end up being controlled from abroad as so many others are.

The Duke of Westminster will have put assets in trust if , as you say, he does not pay inheritance tax. But trusts pay taxes . Every 4 years or so .

Charles and William need to make their accounts fully available and they need to obey the law and pay all the due taxes as we all must do, yes

This is not happening at the moment .

You appear to be very confused!

Please keep to facts rather than heresay and stop posting about things you clearly know nothing about.

Firstly, the Clarence House Review was an annual report detailing charitable activities that was released alongside the main Financial Annual Report. It did not provide the information you are suggesting.

The Duchies produce their own accounts every year that are scrutinised by the Treasury and National Audit Office. The Duchies do not pay for royal valets, housekeepers etc!

Those wages are paid from the Sovereign Grant which is a percentage (agreed by Parliament) of the surplus from the Crown Estate mananged completely independently of the King or other royals. In 2023 the King announced that he was happy to reduce the percentage he received from 15% to 12% so more of the SG could be used for the common good.

The purpose of the SG is to pay for the costs of running and maintaining Buckingham Palace and the other houses/palaces that are used by the royal family (excluding privately owned properties such as Sandringham and Balmoral). The SG also pays for travel expenses and other costs associated with the duties of the monarchy. Paying for valets and housekeepers etc. is part of those running costs and a legitimate expense - but these expenses do not have any impact on the King's tax liability.

The King pays income tax on funds received from the Duchies and his own personal income from investments. He also pays Capital Gains Tax on his investments in the same way as anyone else. The King and the Prince of Wales follow the same self-assessment rules as other taxpayers. Their tax affairs are reported to HMRC and are confidential. If the King chooses to disclose how much tax he has paid, that is entirely at his discretion.

The Duchies are effectively managed in trust like most other large estates so are not liable to Corporation Tax. Anyone can put property (they don't live in) into a trust and receive exactly the same tax treatment - it is not any sort of special arrangement. Most people would not choose to do this as Corporation Tax rates are lower than Income Tax so most opt to put their properties and other assets into a Company rather than pay Income Tax at higher rates.

Thanks for the lecture. You are rude. You can defend them all you like but maybe answer...

And what tax did William pay on his Duchy £27M profits? He won't disclose.

The Duchies enjoy a very favourable tax status

I get very frustrated reading all the mis-information I read on here! Trusts do pay taxes. This is my understanding of the current rules:

Income Tax: If an individual beneficiary of a trust is entitled to the income, then the income is taxed on the individual rather than on the trust itself. This is the position of the Duchies.

Corporation Tax: Only companies pay CT so none is paid by the Duchies as they are effectively trusts not companies.

Captial Gains Tax: If trust assets are sold, then the trust is liable to Capital Gains Tax. Trusts can claim roll-over relief in the same way as individuals if the proceeds of sale are reinvested in a qualifying asset. The Duchies are exempt from CGT, mainly because the proceeds of sale are not available for distribution, but have to be rolled-over/reinvested and the capital of the estate cannot be diminished.

Inheritance Tax: A life interest trust (where an individual beneficiary is entitled to the income but not the capital) is not liable to the 10 year charge applied to discretionary trusts ). The assets will on become chargable to IHT if they are paid out of the trust. A trust with successive life interests (such as the Duchies) is therefore not liable to IHT (if it was set up before 2006/2008).

The Duchies' tax status is no more favourable than that of any other similar trust set up prior to 2008 by any other taxpayer. See my post above.

@BustingBaoBun William reports his income to HMRC in the same way as anyone else. Without any evidence to the contrary why assume that he hasn't paid what's due?

How would you feel if I assumed you weren't paying your taxes because you haven't told me how much you paid! It is between William and HMRC - what gives you the right to know how much he paid?

Without any evidence to the contrary why assume that he hasn't paid what's due?

I will assume so. He is not following what his Father did. He chooses not to disclose. Why?
You know as well as I do, William receives a huge amount of money from the Duchy (it is not his private estate, it is a Crown estate). Why should we not know?

His father disclosed percentage and amount. He chooses not to. Bear in mind he doesn't have to pay tax on it, it would lead me to believe he is not paying what his Father did.

In 2023 the King announced that he was happy to reduce the percentage he received from 15% to 12% so more of the SG could be used for the common good.

This "reduction" reflects the anticipated profits from the sale of windfarm licences located on seabeds annexed from the nation by TLQ some 60 years ago.

C3 is still set to trouser an extra £45m.

@BustingBaoBun what do you mean the Duchy of Cornwall is a “Crown Estate”?

What do you mean 'what do I mean'?! Do you think they own the duchies or something?

The UK Crown Estates are not the UK royal family's private property, likewise the Duchies. the revenue they raise is public revenue

If the monarchy ceased to exist, the Duchies would return to public ownership

It’s a private estate.

You are incorrect. They don't own it, they cannot sell it, it is public property, used for the Sovereign Grant. This article is very comprehensive and starts at 1265 with the origins and history of the Duchies

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/05/who-owns-and-profits-from-the-duchies-of-lancaster-and-cornwall-timeline

I’m familiar with British History and in particular the Earldom of Cornwall - the Duchy of Cornwall is a private estate.

If Charles disclosed what he paid on the duchy income, for William not to do so is a REALLY bad look. He is a public figure and the income from the duchy is his via a collective public agreement that royalty can exist. William should think of the Russians and the French and remember the R word - revolution!

It looks really suspicious for him not to disclose. What reason can there be, except for him not to be paying much, if any?

You are obviously not familiar with any of this.
Nowhere does it say it is a private estate

My point exactly. Thank you

His father has disclosed for years the percentage and the amount. He chooses not to