Oh to have the confidence of an average male

[Errors]

This is one of my favourite sayings now. Did I get it right? I think I read it for the first time on here.

Anyway, what is it about getting slightly older (40s) and all of a sudden SEEING this everywhere?

I went on a date the other day with a guy who still
lives at home with his Dad and siblings (he is my age) which normally wouldn’t be off putting in of itself (it was circumstantial) but he was so unbelievably full of himself. Kept talking about women in the office throwing themselves at him, text me after to say I was too ‘cold’ and not flirty enough and so he decided to ‘match my vibe’ and almost made out like I was really missing out on someone great by not wanting to see him again.

Tell me some of your hilarious stories about men acting this way please.
Why the hell do most decidedly average (and below average) men think they’re god’s gift?

There's even a name for it: the Peter principle.

Me too.

And whenever my confidence at work is low, it's what DH tells me - or names a specific colleague that means the same thing.

It starts off when they are children and how boys ans girls are raised differently.
Men are strong, women are agreesive
Men are good leaders, women are bossy

Read the authority gap. It'll make your blood boil

I think the male approach is better for individual success but the female approach is best for the group. Saying "I don't know" is a hugely underrated skill.

I feel like I'm starting to get this confidence! I'm nearly 33 years old and have 4 kids and 4 businesses along side my husband. And just this year I kind of 'woke up' and realised I don't have to be likeable all the time. I can say what I think. It doesn't matter if I am wrong.

What irks me is I'm quite handy around the house. I couldn't build something from scratch. But if it's a flat pack or needs fixing. I'm on it. Put together a 12 ft trampoline alone. A double bunk bed alone, all our furniture, recently a galvanised steel dog kennel for a husky sized dog. Very proud of myself. Dh appears when I'm done and buzzes around with the electric screwdriver, to make sure I have tightened them properly.... it's an electric screwdriver mate. It's not strength dependent. 🤨

My boss is one of these men. He constantly blusters in meetings and comes out with 'facts' which would (if true) require fundamental changes to the way we run the business. Upon checking what he's saying, it's normally wrong or would result in a change that would lose us money. My New Year's resolution is to try to interject (with correct facts) more often. He just says things that sound so confident at the time that nobody argues.
I often wish I had applied for his role when it was open. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Oh wow I’ll spell it out then.

This kind of “why can’t men be different, they’re so arrogant” just descends into a pity party where folk toss out stories of arrogant men.

Lean the fuck in, sisters. Just be bigger and better.

I don’t think you’ve read the room correctly. I’m certainly not feeling any pity. Just mild amusement.

Also, I do not need to be bigger or better. I am awesome just as I am, thank you.

That's really not what's happening here.

Lean in? Retro!

This.

It's not just a case of "women need to be more confident". We aren't judged to the same way. The men are overconfident in part because they are assumed to be competent and not challenged. The women meanwhile are assumed to be incompetent and constantly challenged.

Being constantly challenged is undermining. It gives others the impression you are not trusted and it affects your confidence in yourself.

Even worse, it consumes your time and spreads your focus, making you not just look less effective but actually be less effective, because part of your energy and time has to go into answering lots of trivial questions/providing lots of visibility to reassure others you are competent, while men are just assumed to be without all that drag.

The old canard about women having to be twice as good as men isn't just because we don't get the same credit for the same work, it's also because our jobs are made actually harder by sexism.

Don’t confuse the act of the dating game with actual confidence/real life. Men are probably more likely to “act up” around women in their late 30s, 40s etc as opposed to when they’re young. They think have a job and are financially secure and the fact that they’re on a date in the first place means they’re still probably attractive to some women. Conversely many women in their early 20s and 30s are likely to be more confident/picky than men that same age.

I have this slogan on a T shirt ....my DH bought it me for Christmas.

This is rife in academia and some of these mediocre men have made my life quite challenging at times. DH bought me the t shirt as I'm starting new job this year where I will be line managing some challenging mediocre male colleagues.

Agree with this and would also add that there seems to be an unacknowledged agreement between men that they work together to keep their positions. Always putting men above women/people with disabilities/people of colour etc. This is why we're seeing so much push back and misogyny returning, they're scared.

@JacquesHarlow how patronising. Lean in? Pointing out the arrogance of some men and you suggest it's women's fault? That perhaps women should behave more like a man?
No. Men need to change. While this will require a societal shift it has been happening for some time (snails pace, I do sense some regression). By women as well as men, but not the individuals who are calling out this behaviour.

Probably a lot of this is tied into the testosterone etc factor. Traditionally/historically men would have to fight wars, hunt for food, and battle other men for the more desirable/fertile females. Then more recently the battle would be with other men for the decent pay/jobs, the confidence to approach more attractive women, and above all their social status in society. None of that you can do with modesty.

So rather than expecting men to have less of the bluster, or “overconfidence” what would be better now that men/women (in the West at least) compete in most social arenas on a more or less equal footing is for women to be encouraged to develop those same traits and to fully support them in other women (which still is often not the case)

Trouble is, he’s probably right isn’t he? Men are grossly overvalued in education and every other female-dominated sector, for no other reason that they are male.

I had one utter berk tell me that the mere fact of male participation in female dominated sectors showed that they were far more motivated than the average female and therefore deserved to get ahead. Such an interesting excuse for male supremacy. Shame it never seems to work that way for women working in male dominated sectors, unless they are being pushed as the token.

Why do we suggest men have the problem here?

Because many of these mediocre men end up in positions of authority and don't live up to the expectations of the role, the sense of entitlement is larger than the sense of purpose. It is not a good thing.

No I don't suggest it's men's fault. Many men have always been fucking arrogant, overbearing, overblown sacks of wind.

I'm just saying that posts like these do absolutely nothing to change the status quo, unless we as women pull ourselves up!

Which is why so many mediocre men end up in management. We don't apply. We should.

I'm just saying that posts like these do absolutely nothing to change the status quo, unless we as women pull ourselves up!

But how are women supposed to do that if they don't read posts like this? I came across the concept online and it has hugely boosted my own confidence in work, I force myself to stop questioning myself so much and remind myself how mediocre many of the men are in the roles I want. It's awareness, which this post is doing.

I think a lot of men are what I call "legends in their own egos"

Its not their fault they have more than a slither of ambition

Gosh, yes, all we need are even more people who don't have a clue what to do but are confident they know the answer.