Tenant’s ’friend’ locked out

[Catcherintherice]

I am a landlord and around an hour ago took a phone call from my tenant. He is visiting family and accidentally locked out his friend who lives with him. Friend has no key and apparently no money as his cards are in the flat.
The friend is not a tenant and has never been a permitted occupier. Today is the first time the tenant has told me he is actually living there.
The flat is over 30 miles from me. I have visitors and have been drinking. I am probably not over the legal limit but I never drive after any alcohol.
I am not really happy about giving access to someone who isn’t a tenant, but as the tenant says he is there, I have offered that he can get someone to collect a key from my home.
I can’t think of anything else. I have posted in AIBU as I don’t think I’m being unreasonable in not offering anything else, and can’t think of what more I can do.
He has contacted a locksmith who has quoted over £400, and wants payment before he comes out.

Try and see this from a landlord’s perspective. There was an additional adult ( outside the tenancy agreement) living in the property with mental health and alcohol abuse issues . Their erratic behaviour might cause damage to the property / leave it unsecured. The tenant wasn’t even there keeping an eye on things.

Not ok. No wonder the landlady wanted to come and check what was going on.

I’ve never been a landlord , but have rented a house with DW some years ago.

We rented through an agency, we never had any direct contact with the landlady, infact im not even sure we could even contact her directly ourselves. The agency dealt with everything.

I can’t remember what we would have done in an out of hours emergency, I can’t remember if there was an emergency phone number or not. It was a long while back.

I do remember one night we were burgled when we popped out for a few hours. We called the police who eventually attended ( the thieves smashed a back door to enter ). Once they left, we called a locksmith who secured the fence doors with wooden boards. We had to pay him there and then of course.

The next day , we notified the lettings agency and gave them the crime report number. We were reimbursed the locksmith money within a few days and the door was replaced. Pain in the arse but these things sadly happen.

OP- could it be worth considering paying a lettings agency to manage your property for you ? This way , tenants wouldn’t be pestering you for any issues and the agency would have to deal with the tenants problems.

Would the letting agent not just have told the tenant that the friend had no right to be there?

I would have been jolly well pissed off. If I was that poster and the landlany. A man who wasn’t even living there officially was left there by his family when they went away.
He was drunk and locked himself out when going outside for a smoke.
It then fell to the neighbours late at night to get hold of the landlady who managed to
come out.
What if the landlady couldn’t come over ? What if the landlady couldnt be reached ?
What would the poster on here ( the neighbour) have done ? Let the drunk man stay at hers? With her own family living there? What would have happened to the drunk man ?Who would have come to help him? The police ?

Sadly , these are problems that some tenants don’t think of when they allow family members or friends to stay in their property whilst they go away and end up locking themselves out.

Pretty much. In my experience, letting agents are as useful as a chocolate teapot when out of the ordinary difficulties arise.

It may already have been said, but by giving the friend keys there could be a risk that you were giving consent, now that you know they are living there.

Suspect you're going to have to have a possibly tenancy-ending conversation with your actual tenant when they return.

What a mess. I would also be going over there today.

@paul2023 @olympicsrock it wasn't the landlady's issue. But she very kindly did come and let him in. We could confirm that he had been staying there. She may well have spoken to her Tennant too. She went out of her way to help. The Tennants when they returned were incredibly grateful. They were a lovely family and stayed years. We moved away before they did, they are still local as I see them around. He was the dad that dressed up as Father Christmas on Christmas Eve and knocked to give my kids a gift. We weren't that friendly with them it was just a lovely gesture.

We don't have one
I looked at worse case scenario say if tenant didn't pay etc and they don't have any more legal clout than we do ourselves. I have a plumber and an electrician etc. I think an agent fee is something like 10% + VAT per month and i couldn't see what it's be getting for my money.

How do you suggest they 'end' the tenancy agreement?

Have a look on Air B and B! Wouldn't be the first time a landlord has seen their property being sublet.

Serve notice on the tenant for breach of tenancy agreement.

it's nice to have a lettings agency sort out your tenants dramas problem is that's going to cost her a good chunk of money monthly. On the other hand to all those posters encouraging OP to kick tenant out for breach of contract we don't know if that 'forgetful guest' is the cousin staying a few days to water the plants or an airbnb guest. In any case the teal tenant is giving her too much aggro. I've always made copies of my front door key and made sure to find a very discreet hiding spot, either inside a crack in the wall, inside a pipe etc... or give a set to a trusted close family member in case i loose my keys, it's just Common sense which looks like tenant somewhat lacks.

Depends on the agency. I had endless issues with mine. Turns out they left a family with a newborn without hot water/heating for 3 days. I was fuming when I heard and immediately took the property back to manage, got the issue fixed then changed the boiler. I couldn’t believe their inaction. Then when the tenant moved out, the agency couldn’t find the deposit! The minute I threatened to sue /put this on social media they suddenly found it. I protected the deposit myself after that. I’m sure there are good agents out there, but the stress was more than dealing with it ourselves.

OP says tenant says the ‘friend’ lives there.

It could invalidate the insurance and what if something goes wrong? No way would I be giving some random a spare key whilst the tenant's away and cannot be contacted. I agree with why couldn't the man trying to get in stay with the other one, get a lift or borrow money from him and you don't know if he's just visiting for a few days, been living there or subletting? I'd visit there today to inspect any damage from them trying to break in and find out what's going on like is it being subletted as an Air B&B. Then speak to the tenant when he returns to get the story and possible evict him. There's something not quite right here.

A quick update, although no real progress.

The neighbour who phoned last night has had a look at the front door and there is no obvious damage ( I can’t rule out the inside of the lock being damaged, but am very pleased that the property itself seems secure).

I did eventually silence calls and went to bed. I missed a call from an unknown number at 4.40am - it’s probably a good thing for that person that I didn’t answer at that sort of time.

I have plans for today which don’t involve me going anywhere near the flat and in the cold light of day have decided that I was overly anxious to help yesterday as it was late at night on Boxing Day and I felt sorry for someone who was locked out. My spare key is no longer on offer to anyone but the formal tenant.

I will be arranging to go and see him when he returns to the U.K. to discuss the situation regarding his friend and also appropriate timing of contact for non emergencies.

I have to be available in case of true emergencies such as a major leak or fire, but someone locking themself out does not come within that category.

I had a good look at the Tenancy Agreement to remind myself of finer details. It states that I do not offer an unlocking service and they need to employ a locksmith at their own expense and risk.

I don’t mind the tenant contacting me during normal hours. If I am in the area and have my keys with me of course I’ll pop round and let them in for free, but out of hours in Boxing Day is not really on.

@Catcherintherice what happened in the end?

I can't believe the tenant had the audacity to even contact you! If he's locked his "friend" out then that has nothing to do with a landlord responsibility.

The tenant should have paid for a taxi for the friend to go and collect a spare key from you (which was a very generous offer!) or the tenant should have paid for their friend to stay in a hotel for the night.

It all sound very dodgy - someone who isn't even listed as an occupier goes out with no keys and no money. I'd certainly inform the police that unless it matches the ID of your tenant then they can't be let into the property.

(EDIT: You updated whilst I was typing!)

You can send a Section 8 or 21 and the tenancy can be ended if the agreement has been broken. I sent a Section 21 to end a tenancy this year, I wrote about it on here. The tenants kept phoning, drunk, to say they were having issues with each other, then it was mentioned that the police had been round multiple times due to the bloke’s aggressive behaviour when drunk. Then they stopped paying rent and I can’t tell you the mess they left behind, 6 car loads of rubbish I took to the tip. They left when asked, thank god, after multiple threats from them, no forwarding address, no idea how they found somewhere else. Glad to get rid, delighted I didn’t have to go to court.

Fwiw I think you went above and beyond offering a key for someone to collect from you. These are grown adults and you’re not a parent on call to bail them out!
I’d remind the tenant they’re breaking the terms of their tenancy agreement.

My nice tenant (before aggressive drunk one) used to contact us at stupid o’clock for minor issues eg a mouse or a very minor drip from a rad. We told him no contact after 9pm unless it was a dire emergency. He was always drunk when he contacted us after 9pm, very dramatic ‘There is mouse, she very fast, I cannot catch her’. Get a snap trap! I literally sent some round. Problem solved. Put in place a really strict limit, but you need to investigate who the long term live in friend is, that’s breaking the AST according to you. What will you do about that?

I think you need a new tenant that doesn’t breach their agreement by having additional people live there. I’d be more pissed off and concerned about that than the being locked out and contacted on Boxing Day night thing.

But how often are men called upon to be 'lovely' in this way? Hardly ever, it's typically women who are expected to be 'lovely' and put themselves out for the sake of others.

We do know
It's right there in the OP