My 4 year old sleeps 7.30-5am and getting shorter

[softkittywarmkittylittleballoffur]

My daughter has always been a terrible sleeper. She is now going to sleep later and later and still rising so early. She is very active, eats well but is always exhausted. We put her to bed earlier and she just rolls around - no amount of good cop or bad cop works.
Same in the morning she just cries to get up and this never stops, we have tried for weeks before. What can we do to get her better rested?

She's in bed from 7.30 until 5, how much "rest" do you think the poor wee thing needs! That's a crazy length of time at 4 years old, she's telling you loud, clear and correctly that she doesn't need that much sleep. Mine didn't Why have children if you want them to sleep all the time. Jeesh! 😤

Put her to bed a bit later? She's getting over 10 hours, that should be enough for her age.

I really think this is a pretty normal amount of sleep? DS(5) sleeps 8-6 and has done for a few years now - and that's more than a lot of his friends.

My 4 year old sleeps 6 until 5 or 6. Suits me that he goes to bed early and rises early. He certainly isn't a sleepy child so I don't think you are unreasonable for wanting your child to sleep a bit longer!

Put her to bed around 9pm rather than 7.30 which is early for 4 years old. She'll soon start sleeping in longer. Get her a gro clock and explain it to her. Get her stuff to wear herself out before bed - pickler triangle, indoor trampoline etc etc. We have a big 'chase mummy round the house' session before bed with our kids which seems to expel some energy.

If she goes to sleep 7.30pm I am not surprised she is up 5am. You need to push her bedtime later so she sleeps later.

They need between 10 to 14 hours.

Given most parents spend their days dedicated to their kids, it’s normal to want the evening to themselves

It sounds like your daughter is at the lower end of sleep needs OP. 7.30 is fine as a bedtime if you don’t want her up later, just be clear if she wakes at 5.30 she needs to read or play with her toys till 7.

Did she start school yet? If not she’ll be more tired then.

My DS (5yrs old) has never slept more than 10 hours, to compensate he goes up at 8pm aiming to be asleep by 9pm, he then wakes just before 7am which is what suits us. I prefer to see him and cope in the evenings than 5am starts, which would not be tolerable. It's about finding what suits you and your child. Hope you find a balance soon.

Wow. This is incredibly harsh. Every other child I know goes to bed between 7pm and 8pm and sleeps until 6.30/7. I’m going to ask for this to be removed I didn’t ask to be torn apart

It's really tough when friends and family have children who sleep 12 hours straight through, no drama. Unfortunately some children need more support. Would she go back off if in with you?

As the owner of a 4 year old I think the advice above is a little mad! Every nursery in the land recommends kids sleep at 7pm. Later fine for holidays obviously but around 7pm is right where she should be. 5am is an early start - hope you get some good advice!

Mine has always been an extremely early riser. No matter how much later I moved bedtime he'd wake at 5am.

You and partner need to do alternative mornings and be damn sure you're on the same page for this. My DH would wake but lie there listening to the crying until I went to get up and then make his move, by which point I was well awake. I left it far too long before losing my shit with him after which he got his act together.

My ds continued to wake at 5am until he was 14! But we did teach him to get up quietly and play and left a snack breakfast in his bedroom once at an appropriate age.

Some kids need less sleep. And I’m sure other parents lie about their kids sleep too!

She's probably just on the lower end of sleep needs. DD1 is like this, she goes to bed about 8:30 and is up somewhere between 6 and 7. Usually nearer 7 but just depends.

I am finding some of the replies quite surprising! I have a nearly 5 year old and 7.30 seems a normal bedtime for that age to me. Mine is usually up between 6 and 6.30 although the clocks going back did mess him up for ages. I'm pretty sure when I was a kid we were expected to be in bed for about 7.30 through much of primary school, and I certainly wasn't getting up at 5 am!

How the hell do people manage that. Pick kid up from nursery at 5 . Home and 5.30. get dinner bath etc and asleep by 7?

What a mad comment. My 4 year old consistently sleeps 11-12 hours, the sleep recommendation for this age is 10-13 hours.

7.30 is a fine bedtime, but if you don't have a 12-hour sleeper and have a child who only needs 10, for example, then you have to choose between evenings or early starts really.

Personally I don't mind the evenings, it gives us an extra hour after DD2 goes to bed to play board games with DD1 etc. and she's usually asleep by half 8ish and we go to bed about midnight so we still get a good chunk of childfree time. I don't operate at 5am so would never choose starting my day then. But now DD1 is 5, she is able to amuse herself in mornings for a while anyway.

In the kindest possible way @softkittywarmkittylittleballoffur, that is likely to be all she needs. At 4 DS went to bed at 9.45/10 and slept until about 6. He admittedly didn't need more sleep than that but it took us years to work out that if he went to bed at 7.30/8 he'd be up for two hours or more from 2/2.30.

If she's asleep by 7.30, 5.30 is fair enough. I don't think you can have it both ways.

@softkittywarmkittylittleballoffur
Just talk to her about staying quiet and playing in her room.
Mine were in bed at 7 at that age up at about 6/6.30, if they woke before they played quietly, coloured or read.
You need to encourage self entertainment in these hours.
My eldest will sleep for Britain. He'd go 6.30pm to 8am - longer if he could.
Middle, has always got up for 5.15ish. Whether to bed at 7pm or 11pm. She would colour and read till 6am. Once she hit 8y would go down and make her own breakfast.
Youngest is 7 currently, have to be up for 6am now she goes up at 7/7.30 lights out at 8pm.
I have always encouraged 30-60 mins of self play, chill out (no screen time) reading for the last 30/60mins of the day. (this is simple to do, parental controls - tells them time up at 7pm)
It's worked well for us as a family.
Good luck OP

Wow I didn’t see anyone tear you apart except maybe first poster?

IMO 7:30 is a good bedtime for a 4 year old.

DS1 is 9 and he goes to bed at 7:30!! Asleep at 8:30 but nothing wrong with sending them to bed for some chill time (for them and for you!)

DD is 2 and goes to bed 6:45-7ish generally (not today, holidays!)

Mine have always been early risers (hence the earlier nights, we’ve always run early. Works for us). Early to bed early to rise :) nothing wrong with that.

I’d say your DC has to stay in their room until 6 (or whatever you deem reasonable), 4yo should be able to do that with a bit of bribing.

One of mine used to do this. Unfortunately he was just an early riser. When he started school it did get a bit better and he would sleep til about 6am. He is still an early riser now, generally waking between 6-7 but is old enough to entertain himself (read, listen to his yoto player or go downstairs and watch TV).
I think you just have to go with it and get up early too I'm afraid.

DS is up by 6 every single day. My advice is to sort it so she amuses herself with TV until 6.30 or so. I get up, put on TV, get out some cereal then go back to bed.

We've got one like that. By 18 months she'd dropped naps and was going to bed at 9:30/10;00. She's now 9 and rarely sleeps much before 11:00. She's always happily got up at 7:00am, and is happy and healthy with no sign of ND - she's just never needed much sleep. Sure I miss my evenings, but this way round beats mega early mornings, and she does at least lie in bed on her own with a book or Audible for the last hour now.

No idea what the previous poster is so mad about. My DD is 4 and goes to bed at 18.30 and doesn't get up until about 06.30. It's good for them to have quiet time even if they don't sleep. Mine knows she's got to stay in her room until the yoto light changes colour. You know better than strangers in the internet if your child is sleep deprived or not. The NHS here says 11.5 hours of sleep for 4 years of age:

derbyshirefamilyhealthservice.nhs.uk/our-services/0-5-years/pre-school-3-5-years/caring-your-preschooler/sleep

I don't have much in the way of advice I'm afraid. My daughter didn't sleep through until she was nearly 4, nights were very broken. Now she understands about the yoto light colour things are reasonably good. I daresay you've tried it though!