My 4 year old sleeps 7.30-5am and getting shorter

[softkittywarmkittylittleballoffur]

My daughter has always been a terrible sleeper. She is now going to sleep later and later and still rising so early. She is very active, eats well but is always exhausted. We put her to bed earlier and she just rolls around - no amount of good cop or bad cop works.
Same in the morning she just cries to get up and this never stops, we have tried for weeks before. What can we do to get her better rested?

My experience as well for this age is bed time at 8 pm.. but nobody is ripping you apart on this thread🤷‍♀️ it's just that since she doesn't sleep for very long maybe put her to bed a bit later?

Bonkers the people telling you this is ‘too much’ sleep! I work with infants and I’d be concerned if a child told me they were going up to bed as late as 9pm as some people are suggesting, they still need 10- 14 hours at this stage. It sounds like she’s at the lower end of sleep needs. How is her independence and understanding? Could she have a few ‘special morning’ toys that could keep her occupied until 6ish which is a more bearable wake up time? Would she listen to a tonie box or something? I always have a bottle of water and a breakfast snack on my little ones bedside table for very early morning wake ups - taken on advice from my dear MIL and it’s paid dividends through the years!!

7.30 is a perfectly reasonable bedtime at that age. She’s waking too early so you need to treat it as a nighttime waking and reset her body clock. So tell her it’s still nighttime and to go back to sleep until at least 7.

Groclocks are also good. And bribery. But you must be firm. No rewards for waking at 5.30. Keep it dark and boring. No TV, no breakfast.

Yep. Mine's 30 now.

Mine would do 7.30-7.30 at that age. Some silly late bedtimes being suggested on here. Kids need a lot of sleep at that age.

5 is early but 7:30 to 5 seems like enough sleep

I don’t think 9.5 hours is enough for a 4 year old.

Has nobody read the OP properly she is ‘always exhausted’. She needs more sleep.

My DS (now 51, btw) used the wake up around 5.00 every morning. It was just his pattern. It's not the same as them waking up and wanting to play at 2.00 am or something. There's no point in 'good cop/bad cop' stuff. If they're awake, they're awake. They've had the sleep they need. The least stressful way, I suspect, is to adapt your pattern to suit hers.

When she's 13 and it takes a crowbar to get her out of bed, you'll look back at these days with nostalgia.

But 10 hours sleep from 9pm is a 7am wake-up which is a totally normal wake-up time?
The whole point is that each child is an individual and will generally fall somewhere on the 10-14 hour spectrum for sleep needs (and I imagine there are still some outliers). So if your child only needs 10 hours sleep, then 9pm is a fine bedtime. It's not about the bedtime, it's about how much sleep they a) need and b) get. I don't really want or need the kids to be awake before 7, so some days 5yo probably is asleep nearer 9, but she's up at 7-7.30, which seems like a totally standard time to be awake for leaving the house at 8:45 for school.

A 7.30 bedtime is fine, but unrelated to the amount of sleep a child needs. If you have a 10-hour sleeper then you're going to have early mornings. So you either choose later bedtime or put up with the early starts.

DD1 is a 10-11 hour child. DD2 has always needed much more sleep. DD1 dropped her nap way before 2, DD2 is 2.5 and still naps for 2+ hours a day.

Children are individuals.

For previous posters saying infants need more than 9/9.5 hours and 10 to 14 hours is expected, they are quite right - for the majority of infants. Not all. There will always be children who sit outside the averages and norms. Just like not all children have an IQ of 100, not all are average height, not all are brilliant at running, etc. All children are different and have different needs.

I wonder @softkittywarmkittylittleballoffur if your dd might have periods awake during the night. I know I did and DD, since the age of about 21 has told me she did too.

Mine were both very early risers. Later bedtimes didn't help so we settled at 7pm -530am. Once they started school, they gradually slept a little later. Now they are teenagers and sleep until 1pm so...🤣

@username19832756 what sort of work do you do with infants? One of my school gate friends was a paediatrician and her view was that if children didn't need to be woken in the mornings, they were getting enough sleep. Mine genuinely didn't need more than 8 or 9 hours and neither did DH or I as children. We both operate very well on about six hours as does ds. Dd always needed and still needs a little more, 7-8 hours.

If don't believe at all that infants should have snacks on their bedside tables. That cannot possibly encourage a good relationship with food and is potentially disastrous for their dental hygiene.

We’ve only ever done the council nurseries that finish at 3 in line with the school term. Ours is now at school nursery with a 3.30 finish so 7pm is easy and this is what was recommended to us at their introductory presentation. It’s a good point that this wouldn’t work for a private nursery with a 5pm finish.

My 2yos bedtime is 8-8.30 and she's up 6.30-7.30. Put her to bed later or in her room to play for a bit if you want some time alone.

Mine went to bed around 7.30 at that age and were usually awake at 6 but occasionally earlier. I would just bring her into your bed for a cuddle and keep lights off, no tv etc and she might doze or drop off, fingers crossed. Keep your voice at a whisper and say it's still night time, not time to get up yet. Although if she's wide awake, she'll probably want a wee and a drink of water! I'd still take her into your bed for quiet time and a cuddle even if she's not sleepy - you're reinforcing the message that it's not time to get up yet.