Electric scooter kid went flying after hitting my car door

[LoveMyPiano]

I was just about to get out of my car - door opening onto the pavement - this afternoon, not dark by any stretch of the imagination, although the car door does have a light that stays on even when ignition off.
I had seen a girl (I think I know her, she's 8 or 9) go zooming past "up" the road - wearing black, on her no-doubt Christmas present, large electric scooter.
I pushed the door open, not fully, an was about to get out when I heard a skidding sound and she hit the car door and went flying onto the ground.
When I look afterwards, the tyre marks were about 2/3 of the way across the pavement, closer to my car. Had the door been fully opened, it would have been badly damaged, I think - or she might have been.
She rolled on the ground but didn't hit her head (no helmet) and seemed to want to check her scooter thoroughly herself.

I didn't say sorry - more like "Oh God!" - and checked she was OK, briefly saying that she was very difficult to see, but that's all, even though I think a whole lot more.
This will no doubt come back to me as "she was knocked off her scooter by that woman up the road" etc - but AIBU to think it was her own fault, even allowing for the fact she is a young child?

Could this count potentially as a hit and run, or failure to report a collision/incident?
If i were you i'd at least call 101 and report the incident. Better that, than her parents report it and police show up at your door with her side of the story to go on.

It's called the Dutch Reach and is a safer way of opening car doors

https://www.cyclinguk.org/dutchreach

I've been teaching DC to do it. It could prevent injury

>>I think that these e-scooters should be banned for under eighteens
They already are, except on private land. But the importers know that 99.9% of them will be used on the roads, and they don't care.

There is a case to be made for banning their sale altogether, but then there would probably be a media campaign led by Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson, financed by Elon Musk, saying "Here is little Chardonnay Smith who only ever rides her scooter at the track and will now be unable to compete for GB at the Olympics in the 400m underwater electric scooter event, why is Keir Stalin's nanny state infringing on an Englishman's freedoms in his castle, the police should go and catch some real criminals instead". 🙄

I'm back - thank you for informative responses.
Just been out on my bike for an errand. In the fog - but lit up like Dynamo (and picked up for a lift home).

I tend to be over-cautious really - I do what I called the Dutch reach wrongly, when I set off, turning my head every which way like Regan in The Exorcist; I also use reflections, shadows and sound to let me know when it is safest. (These scooters aren't much help with those methods though. Obviously.) I am also that annoying driver who actually does leave the inner bike lane and bike box clear at my closest crossroads, which intersect a B road with a busy A road. This mean often that a car really wants to squeeze up the outside to turn right, but if I leave the bike lane clear, that cannot be done.... I also check again as I get to the lights, and before I turn left there. It is quite a dangerous junction, notorious for accidents.

As far as the scooter rider is concerned, I cannot say for sure that i know where she actually lives - so knocking at the house I think it is could be futile, and seen as maybe creepy. Like I said, she and her friends have been shockingly rude, but I wouldn't wish her any harm. IF it's her - as there are several who look alike.

I shall be ringing 1010 tomorrow, as it is preying on my mind; this is not to drop anyone in it though - including, and especially myself!

Might also be a good idea to park on the correct side of the road in future.

Blaming a child. Calling her indelicate you sound delightful. Victim blaming what a peach.

If they’re going at 15mph or more then they’ll easily travel over 5 metres in a second - I find it difficult to see or stop for them when reversing into my drive with cars and trucks half parked over the pavement. The police need to start confiscating and destroying them.

You're subtly trying to portray her as some of feral kid who gets fashionable clothes and an electric scooter for Christmas and just roams on the streets, unsupervised. She is therefore less important than a child who loves her piano, as you do.

You're trying to garner support by trying to relate this kid on a scooter to cyclists riding triple abreast, a delivery driver on his phone with no vehicle lights (doubtless delivering pizza to this girl's "rude" family") to get us to go all daily mail and victim blame.

You knocked a child off her scooter. You had already seen her on the street and seen she was on a large electric vehicle. You failed to gauge her speed correctly. Worse still, you failed to follow up whether she was injured and left her to make her own way home.

The legality and stupidity of the scooter is secondary here: Your failure to ensure her well-being after the accident, so you could minimise your role and avoid blame is the primary concern.

You are not allowed to ride electric scooters on pavements or roads. You are not to blame .

This happened to me once op.
You won't get in trouble.

I was in the passenger seat, child in the back. I told child to stay while I opened the door. I looked all the way behind me, noone one on the pavement, opened the door, and a cyclist crashed so fast into the car door he went flying over it. Broke the door.
He was up and off so quickly that by the time I was out of the car he was gone.
It was filmed. I was found not at fault by the car drivers insurance. Noone knows who he was, he never came forward.

I was paranoid for months, still am tbh, that he was seriously hurt. But it was totally his fault.
I LOOKED I remember looking. I told my child to stay in the car because I didn't want her to open the door on a pedestrian.

The whole bloody pub garden opposite saw, and though I was convinced I'd be a pariah, everyone said it was not my fault.

It's not your fault. Pavements are for pedestrians.

@CinnamonJellyBeans I don't very often say this - but O M G....
I did NOT knock her off her scooter - the pavement is easily wide enough to swerve around an open car door if 1) Not going too fast - 2) having your wits about you. She failed on both of these - due to being too young to be doing the activity - legal, sensible, safe , or not!
I do not thinks she's "feral", the clothes were not what I would call "Designer" - just the latest trend... I should imagine everything about her today was new, being Christmas. I really could not care less about anything other than the scooter incident.
I said she's not delicate, because she isn't a tiny wee girl, she looks healthy and robust. Not that that would mean she would bounce though - or maybe she did....
The other anecdotes are not me trying to garner support at all - what kind of mind do you have that sees it that way? They are just other examples of the dangers of generally being on the road.
This girl was not even on the road anyway, but on the FOOTpath - she was doing an unsafe activity in a very wrong public place. I saw her go past in one direction - do I then have to wait and see when and where else she chooses to appear. going the other way?? Not. My. Job.
Me having my eye on her would have been more than her mum and dad did.

This. All of it but particularly the last paragraph. Your lack of concern for the girl is evident and pretty horrible.

Also, insurance didn't even question me. Cyclist on the pavement? Not your fault.

I would imagine it's the same with a scooter.

So you failed to look properly and see someone coming down the pavement. I nearly got killed on a roundabout by a driver with a similar level of observation. Yes you are being unreasonable and should use the experience as a warning to LOOK PROPERLY BEFORE OPENING A CAR DOOR.

Whilst that is true you are also not allowed to carelessly open doors in front of people so they crash into them. The OP has at least partial blame for the incident.

Thank you.... and what happened with you sounds awful too.

I'm not keen to tell my insurance, based on what happened with the cyclists all those years ago. I really don't think this is for Police or Insurance, but am dithering about whether I should report it.

I know that the person in the bigger or heavier vehicle bears most responsibility -but really, we should all try to be safe, whatever the mode of transport, shouldn't we? Cyclists can be stupid (say this as one, although not lycra-clad-racing-bike) and entitled, when they are one of the most vulnerable on the roads.

OP says she checked she was OK and later "She seemed to want to get away from me."

It is generally frowned upon to force a child to stay with you or to follow them home.

The child rode into the car door, OP didn't knock her off her scooter by opening the door into her. It was getting dark the child was dressed in black, travelling at speed where OP didn't expect her to be. She previously saw her going in the opposite direction so wouldn't have expected her to be coming back. The car door wasn't fully open so the child must have been very close to the car which would have made her harder to spot.

Difficult families with out of control children do exist. Let's not pretend they don't.

It's about expectation and reasonable belief.

Someone going so fast on a pavement that you can't see if they're coming means they are at fault.

You cannot reasonably expect a fast traveling object in a pavement.

If it was a jogger, fair enough. A scooter? No, it's not reasonable to expect that to be coming towards you on a pavement. Nor a cantering pony, a speeding cyclist or a sprinter.
If it was opening a car door to a road, yes you should look for that. Not on a pavement.

Again ---- the pavement is double the width of my *fully open car door (had I chosen to see her and not care about my car, and simply opened the door anyway, which is not the case). If she had not been going so - too - fast, she could have steered round it.

If she knew what she was doing. Which she didn't - because she's a kid, and had no teaching.

[*and it wasn't fully open, about 1/3 to half open - I measured a little while ago]

The driver of the car I was in only reported it because the car door was broken.

I'm not sure if I'd report it or not in your case tbh. It's probably good you asked the question!

Horrible thing to say about a child having an accident.

She must have come down that road as though there was not, and couldn't possibly be, anything else to consider except her own fun.

OP, you knocked a child off her scooter, didn't check on her, and instead have said some really snide and bitchy things about her. She's 8. You're an absolute weapon.

So this is the second time you’ve knocked someone with your car door and yet it’s definitely not you… right. Sure.

Literally this! I can’t believe the people defending the OP it’s actually a state.

Unfortunately it's just not that simple. If you cause a collision by opening a door you could always be held wholly or partly responsible for any injury/damage that occurs regardless of whether the cyclist was breaking the law or not. (Consider causing an accident with another motorist by pulling out in front of them, however they're not taxed/insured so just as illegal as the electric scooter, however this obviously wouldn't suddenly absolve you of any culpability in the incident). Clearly their dangerous/inappropriate riding could be argued as a mitigation but it absolutely won't be an instant 'you're not at fault'.

The person answering your call/taking the details won't be a legal specialist so unfortunately not worth anything.

The default position tends to be anyone hitting a more vulnerable user is considered at fault, and they are the one who needs to argue to defend themselves from any prosecution/claim. It would be considered a normal hazard to consider children cycling on the pavement and there is a clear expectation in law to check for their/other presence before opening the door.

I'm not meaning to defend the child, I agree the parents of said child must be a bit thick, agree they shouldn't be riding an electric scooter on the pavement, but the OP in this instance will be on the back foot if any claim is made. Especially if this has been a collision with injury involving a child that hasn't been reported to police.

There's quite an interesting case law here re mitigating factors:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/349.html
Essentially around 8pm/dark - a cyclist was travelling on the pavement without lights, they jumped off the pavement into the path of a car and went over the bonnet. Ruling was 50:50 responsibility for the incident after mitigating factors were considered - those included the cyclist was being safer choosing to ride on the pavement given they didn't have bike lights and there was street lighting - which meant the driver would have been able to see them on the pavement and should have slowed down earlier anticipating that they could have come off the pavement into the road.... Thus they shared responsibility for the crash equally with the cyclist.