Doubting my parenting style

[CleoPappa]

Hi all,

I'm probably being unreasonable but need some outside thoughts.

Today we went to a church service with some of DHs relatives then one invited us back to hers for a takeaway.
This relative has a little girl who is 3. We have 3 DC who are 1, 3 and 5.
Parenting wise I've always been so cautious of not spoiling my kids. For Christmas they will get 4 presents from DH and I, 1 from Father Christmas and a stocking. They really don't want have many toys. We aren't struggling financially but I grew up in a less affluent home so I also find myself reluctant to buy my kids expensive things (just feels like a waste as they have no concept).

This relative is the opposite. Her daughter has more toys than my 3 combined and many many of these are expensive (think £300 doll house for Christmas and a whole collection of £50 Mon Ami soft dolls). Her room is like a princesses room with a canopy, expensive rocking horse, expensive bedding, hand painted wall art of fairy ballerinas that look just like the little girl. For Christmas she is getting a dolls house and the accessories from Father Christmas then another 12 items from her mum, more from grandparents/aunts/uncles.
She also just spends a lot more on her daughter, the dress she was wearing was £100, and she has a different dress for each Christmas "event" (Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, nursery Christmas party, going to the theatre, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day), I asked to see the dresses so I know it's my own doing but she must have spent thousands on Christmas.
My two girls were in absolute awe of this little girls life, all the presents under the tree, her gorgeous room and pretty dresses. I know they have no concept of the financial side of it but my kids have one Christmas dress each year and if we have new years plans I'll pick a second hand party dress up for that.

Now I'm thinking, why on earth am I doing this? I feel like I've been told over and over not to spoil them but DH grew up like this little girl and he isn't spoiled or entitled. I'm genuinely not sure why I decided to do it this way when we could give more and do more? I feel like in my circle it's seen as morally superior to give your kids less and there is a lot of bragging about how happy their kids are with one toy.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the approach as obviously for the last 5 years it been what I've done but I'm now really doubting it as I could buy my kids more toys, or expensive clothes or spend extra money on their rooms and still give them experiences and holidays.

AIBU to be doubting my approach? Should I just indulge them a little?

I think you are at one end and they are at the other.

Most people are more in the middle.

My kids had loads of toys as pre schoolers. They were mostly second hand from nearly new sales or charity shops.

I do think kids benefit from a big range of toys - duplo, dolls, trains, play kitchens and food. There's a reason nurseries and pre schools have a big variety.

Same here as Perdita. We also have a large extended family, so even without parental presents, there is a pile under the tree.

Different people have different priorities.

I am not really bothered by brands. If something cheaper fulfils the same role/looks as nice, then I’ll get that (including using the PTA second hand uniform sale). If I perceive additional value in the more expensive option, then I’ll get that. That might be it working better, being more durable, draping better, etc. So, to me your £9.99 dress is much more likely what I would opt for than the £100 dress, as I see little utility in that expense for something a child may only wear once.

I prioritise experiences over things. I would rather spend on travel to novel places. My child has a lot of extra-curricular interests, and I’m happy to plough my money into these, as she values them. We’ll also buy things through the year as needed.

Maybe see it as part of a wider question about priorities. I’m actually unlikely to buy either the £9.99 or the £100 dress. I’m more likely to make the garment myself. I find activities like sewing and knitting quite mindful, as I have to concentrate just enough that it distracts me from work, so I can unwind. I can choose the fabric and pattern, I can ensure that it is well fitted, that the fabric is properly cut, pattern matched and sewn. I like knowing that nobody was taken advantage of in the construction of the garment (fabric is more tricky, and I am unsure that any new fabric is not problematic in some way). Many other people would look at the time and expense involved in this, and decide that it’s a waste of their time. To me, the creation process is therapy AND I end up with a perfect bespoke garment at the end. I know that I am an outlier in this decision. I know other people judge me because they look down on homemade clothing.

Each to their own. We all have different priorities and preferences.

Your Christmases are completely fine. You don’t have to match the in-laws.

Surely if you get like 20 presents every year, your house will end up really cluttered?
I really think that when children have too many toys and material things, they stop noticing and appreciating them. To the extent that when my daughter is in a room with one toy, she'll play with it for ages. If she's offered 5 toys, she'll ignore them or get bored with them much more quickly. Less is more.

I think giving them 4 presents each is plenty! Any more and you'd have a house full of clutter, they'd be overwhelmed and it would just lead to a lot of waste.

The sad truth is, a lot of people live for material things. It gives them meaning. I don't think that's something to aspire to or to actively try and teach your kids.

Please don't get into competitive spoiling of children. More and more research is being produced on the effects of lack of boundaries, spoiling etc, on children's emotional development. It is not good news.
You sound so very balanced and sensible; just because this other child has a room that has been hand-crafted by French artisans and and an explosion in a girly-twee factory, doesn't mean your attitude to presents is wrong.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2642617/

Find a happy medium.
(and I don’t mean a cheery Doris Stokes 🤣)

Merry Christmas!

See I don't believe that more material items = lack of boundaries.
This little girl clearly had boundaries around behaviour. In fact, I'd say she had higher behavioural expectations than my own kids too.

Also not a fan of the "girly-twee", somewhat suggests there is something inherently wrong with being girly and if that is the child's natural personality (which let's be fair for some kids it will be, my 5 year old is a total girly girl) shouldn't be discouraged surely?!

Children don't need tonnes of expensive gifts, they need love. It sounds like in this house gift giving is the primary love language but also that they equate lots of expensive things with status. That's not what I want for my kids. I want them to grow up enjoying presents but understanding Christmas is about family. So I would say to you, by all means buy more toys if you want but it's worth thinking about why it would make you happier. If you didn't know this relative would you even be thinking about changing anything? The thrill of a new toy is so short lived and it must be hard to value everything you have when you have so much.

My kids aren't spoilt but I buy them nice things, which are sometimes expensive. Their rooms are nicely decorated. Why not? You get one short life.
I grew up poor with nothing and it really makes me happy to get them things I only dreamed of.

I wouldn't say gift giving was the primary love language in this relatives house at all actually.
She's a single mum with no dad involved but very involved parents and I'd say quality time is there primary love language.
I'm seeing some of the same views as the people around me that I was somewhat questioning though.
Such as the if you buy lots of gifts you must not be giving your child quality time or must be depriving them of holidays/experiences.
And the
"Spoiling = lack of boundaries" which I don't think is true.

Hello
No, of course there isn't always a connect between excessive material items and lack of boundaries, but excesses can spoil children, and often does. And what material stuff has done in this instance is to make you think you should be giving more, and doubt your own values. Comparison is the thief of joy.
Not sure how you deduced that girly-twee should be discouraged, it was a statement of fact based on your description. Too much of anything, including 'boy-based' colours/images/material things, can be twee.

There's a middle ground between four presents and going totally overboard.

I would personally get a bit more for young children if it was affordable.

I have a foot in both camps. I was fairly frugal with my kid, but i always wanted her to have a lovely bedroom and a gorgeous play house or tree house outside. Due to various house moves and on going renovations, she ended up with no tree house and an average room, because we had to constantly juggle the rooms as we rejigged floor plans etc. Looking back I wish id splurged on a kiddie play house caravan or something, or an amazing bedroom chandelier for her. So I would say no to lots of expensive presents, but yes to an amazing bedroom room or playhouse.

Why are you interpreting spoiling as only being about lack of boundaries? That was one effect outlined in peer-reviewed research. If you read the link, you'll see it also effects emotional development and socialising.

I'm seeing some of the same views as the people around me that I was somewhat questioning though. Such as the if you buy lots of gifts you must not be giving your child quality time or must be depriving them of holidays/experiences. And the
"Spoiling = lack of boundaries" which I don't think is true.

Agreed. This is definitely not an either/or situation. Children can get lots of nice presents and still be beautifully behaved. They can have experiences and presents and ditto.

Honestly, try to ignore it all. What other people do or think is of no relevance. Spend what you personally want to on your children but keep an eye on behaviour. Ignore any moral posturing from others.

I don't like 'stuff'. It doesn't make me happy. So it meant that as a parent, giving lots of stuff wouldn't have come naturally. I gave birthday and Xmas gifts to my daughter.. So did relatives. Sometimes we picked up items from charity shops and jumble sales. Our house was scruffy with a biggish and other children liked coming to play because it felt relaxed. We saw a lot of children's films and theatre at a local arts centre, went to the library and the woods, did cooking and painting. We would make sandcastles on seaside holidays. We weren't rich so a lot of the stuff was cheap. But it was fun and she was a happy child.

If I'd had a girl and she'd been into dolls (I have boys and they have no interest) - I absolutely would have splashed out on a gorgeous dollhouse.

Do you have that kind of money?
Would you buy yourself a £200 shirt or an comparable one for £20? Just because you could doesn't mean you should.
Sure some kids who are 'spoiled' grow up fine, but many are entitled with little grasp of the value of things. Todays expensive dolly becomes tomorrows very much more expensive phone or car.
While I wouldn't do the 'four presents not one more' thing if there was a couple things I thought my kids would really love, your relative is setting her child up for a big reality check (unless they intend to support financially her through life).
And @coxesorangepippin what's wrong with real art? I grew up surrounded with it as it was my parents passion, and yes in our bedrooms too. It wasn't particularly expensive (and an artist being French is irrelevant OP), but was interesting.

There’s also a huge range in extended family/friends gift giving. I didn’t understand the people who were very vocal about only giving their child one gift or doing the wear/read/want/need thing when I would go to their house and they had far more toys than we did.

I later realised that their children were given lots of gifts from people outside the home. We were at the other end of the spectrum where almost all the gifts came from us as parents. So we give more at Christmas and I am comfortable with that.

My friend is exactly the same. Only a few presents and they are not allowed to be plastic - only wooden. Or scandi style. The mum gets more pleasure out of seeing that kind of toy than what the child would actually like.

When her kids come to mine they transfixed by all the gadgets.

They are middle class and not short of a bob or too.

It’s similar to making your child be vegan.

Oh Jesus - children are supposed to be spoiled at Xmas.

I think your way is fine. They don't really need a lot. And between the 3 of them there will be loads anyway. Clothes especially they grow out of so quickly and generally trash most either with holes or stains. Posh for mine is m&s or next vs the usual supermarket stuff! If you actually have a special occasion maybe buy a nicer outfit, but you don't have to.
The relatives you describe sound excessive to be honest. Probably lots of things are bought for the sake of it. And it is setting themselves up for expectations when the children are older and tastes get more expensive.

DD has had some expensive (for us) gifts over the years (including a £500 wooden dollhouse that she doesn’t even look at). This year the winner was a floating football that cost me less than a tenner and was in her stocking. I think it probably matters more that what you give them reflects who they are and what they love.

I think it’s a difficult line to tread, I grew up with not much and really coveted “things”. Dd has a lot more options but she wants to play games with us and have experiences. I don’t think theres a right or wrong tbh. I think as long as what you are doing is attuned specifically to your children thats what matters. I don’t think being materially privileged makes someone a worse person either.

I grew up poor and I do go overboard at christmas cos I'm in the camp of it's nice to have, I know not everyone agrees with that but it's what I like to do

I think your approach to presents is fine as I’m guessing the kids also receive gifts from grandparents and other family members. For me, Christmas is about family and spending quality time with each other. Decorating the tree, making Christmas decorations, baking, going to panto or the theatre, etc - that’s what makes the experience for me, not piles of stuff that will end up in a landfill within a year.

I don’t understand why they can’t have nice bedrooms though? You don’t need to commission a French artist but decorating their rooms in a way they would like (obviously the 1 year old wouldn’t have much input!) is a fairly normal thing to do and not the marker of spoiled children. A new Christmas and New Years dress every year if you can afford it won’t do them any harm either.

It’s your choice….whatever you choose it’s your choice..you don’t want to give them gifts then don’t…if you want to give them a little more then do…if you want to indulge thin m then do…

we love x,as and I go a bit mad…but a bit mad in my eyes. The year however my father died a few days ago and I spent weeks and weeks by his bedside so this year my kids didn’t get as much…in fact nowhere near..

but they were really happy with what they got and they completely understand that they didn’t get a much due to grandad and they’ve had us indulge them and a you can see it’s not done them any harm…however I do remember thinking this year I wish I hadn’t gone so mad for instances like this. But they totally understood n