To think a 3:20 finish is absurd?

[Itsr]

It’s mostly mums at the school gates. Because the 3:20 finish worked well at a time when most women stayed at home.

now most women work, which means two parents working, why does school finish ar 3:20?! Yes I know there are after school classes etc but some don’t go on for too long and they also cost.

what actually is the reason why the school day isn’t aligned with a work day (like it is with most private schools!)

Edit as double post. Couldn’t see my first reply at the time.

Brilliant reading OP 😀 ! Any idea of the percentage of working woman (so pleased we are released from house work duties these days) working 9-5?

I’m on 24hr oncall over the Christmas period (NHS) pretty miffed there isn’t an option for lessons coinciding with this! Christmasy and teachers can take it in turns. No brainer, more effective learning surely? Teachers oncall system!

Non satirical response - I had one child at public school for a year , boarder 6 months. Add up the hours of actual lesson time- same as state school. Trialed home education and a variety of systems for various reasons. I’m bloody lucky to have been able to do this , particularly with a secondary HT as a close relative. Family (not in UK) have lessons 08:30-13:00 - it’s just what happens.

I have one friend working a 9-5. It depends on your circles as to what a normal working pattern is. I suspect it’s not a uk average.

I’m pleased to see more understanding of teacher’s workload here, I’ve seen so much teacher bashing in the past . All professions have the lazy fuckers (including my own). They don’t represent the majority

Are you saying you've chosen a private school, with free wraparound care, at a cost of ~£15k+ annually, to avoid paying ~£4k for a state school breakfast and afterschool club (8-6 daily)? I'm guessing whatever you're earning a high salary for doesn't involve maths or finance.

You seem very shocked to have discovered that your choice to have children means having to take care of them yourself or pay for them to be looked after. Re the falling birth rate, I don't think people are choosing not to have children to avoid £5 an hour in wraparound care. It's got more to do with the £20k a year that it costs to keep a child in full time nursery.

School is out of step with working practices because the two are not seen as related and so as changes happen in one area they are not reflected in other areas. There is no logical reason for the two not to be aligned it is just the way it has always been.
As we came out of the pandemic there was a move in government to make fundamental changes to the way schools are run which would have made life alot easier for working parents though this wasn’t the principal aim. Rishi Sunak then chancellor scotched the idea by refusing to fund it even though he had poured money into much less worthy causes during covid. Thus an opportunity was missed that was not just a once in a generation, or even a once in a lifetime opportunity to improve our education system, but a once in a century one. So very short sighted.

And are thus defrauding their employer by not actually doing the hours or work they are contracted to do, I would suspect. It always amazes me how working from home is seen as the answer to childcare costs. Looking after children is work and no one should be doing one job while getting paid to do another.

School is a service for children, not parents

The government would have to pay teachers more and we are already leaving in huge amounts due to excessive workload.

My friend worked in private schools. She regularly worked an 80 hour week. However she was paid accordingly.

Do you really think the state system can afford that?

Also more parents whose kids go to private school can either afford for one parent to not work or have a nanny/ au pair to collect them. Or they board.

In addition to working longer hours (which they are paid for), the ratio of teachers to pupils is much higher in private schools. So teachers have less pupils, therefore less marking etc, so less “extra” time required outside of lessons.

And not all of that time 8-6 is lessons, so not always teachers (or the same teachers) filling up that time. There is more extra curricular activity that others will manage.

I worked in a private school. An 80 hour week was a quiet one. I earned less than I would have in state.

School is not childcare and should not function as such.

3.20 is long enough for children to be there IMO

By the hour maybe, but surely not by overall salary? But teaching isn’t paid by the hour.

How could you know? Privates often pay less than state, especially when you consider pension contributions. It's not like in state schools teachers are all hoping to get a private school job so they can get earn more.

Well I know from the many years experience of very close friends who have worked in both state and private education for decades. They earned way more (annual salary) in private than they ever would in state. They also had free accommodation provided on site. However they also worked a lot more hours in private than they worked in state.

By overall salary. I moved to the school as Head of a Core subject on a shade less than I earned as a classroom teacher in a state comp. I needed to leave state ed as it was becoming untenable. Lots of small indies get away with the same.

Edit: no free accommodation until I took on assistant house mistress of senior girls’ boarding. Even more hours. Very little extra pay. The housing didn’t help me because I was still paying for my own home anyway.

To be fair, I’m not talking small indie schools. These are top end (not quite Eton etc, but at the too end)

I can believe the pay is better at the more expensive end @Donsyb - but those schools are few and far between and not conveniently located for most teachers!

I thought it was a simple one. So children can get home in daylight as far as possible in the winter.

Of course, if we had continued year round BST as we had when I was quite young (and school finished at 4 then), maybe not the case.

I accept the point about who has to bear the burden, but until the 70s, mothers in full time employment save for a few professions was rare.

I think its unreasonable that your brain thinks this way haha

Most Private schools do not end at the end of a working day.

Children need to reset and not spend every day being rammed with information- new or old. HE also has to be completed at the end of a day.

There's a big difference between private schools and state schools.

If you think after school clubs are too costly to make school align with your work pattern, swap them to private school and let us know how you feel.

And for me, yes, you are being unreasonable to expect school to align with your work schedule.

That's what after school clubs are for. Extending the school day by a couple of hours (and an hour in the morning?) would have massive implications for both pupil and teacher burnout, as well additional costs which your model seems to assume the state would pay. The purpose of school isn't to babysit kids...

It's a long time since I was at private school, but the additional hours were not teaching hours, but time when we had supervised activities, in much the way after school clubs operate or we had supervised homework time so there was no need for homework at home.

These are all covered within private school fees. It would be unreasonable to expect the additional cost of providing out-of-hours supervision for state school kids to be met by the state.

"... at no extra cost." Come on - get real! The cost of this is met by private school fees. Parents pay for this service. It's naive to think that private schools offer these services at no cost to parents, so state schools could do the same.

Private school fees cover the additional staff costs needed to run these activities. State schools are struggling for funding enough as it is. How do you imagine they would be able to find these additional activities for your kids?

... and that is exactly the point. At boarding school your kids are cared for 24 hours per day. The school plays the role of parents, nannies, childminders and parents pay fees for that, in the same way that parents who send their kids to day schools employ someone to care for their kids out of school hours.

I'm amazed that you think state schools should provide the same supervised service as boarding schools for free. You seem to be living on another planet!