14 year old's awful table manners.

[Intensivemoisturiser1]

I've NC for this, as i find it embarrassing!

Just 14 year old's table manners are awful. Gets food around his mouth, shovels it in. He's had fixed braces fitted which he says are responsible for opening his mouth with food in, but his manners were pretty bad before.

We have told him and told him and told him. We are not shy about pointing it out.

I feel despairing. Why does he get it?

The other poster. That’s why I replied to your comment about her.

Anxiety around eating (caused by being criticised whilst eating, eating being one of the things that instinct tells us and other animals is a time when we are vulnerable) can make it imperative to get as much down as quickly as possible so you can stop being vulnerable and get away from the threat.

You'd think that an Occupational Therapist amongst others would realise that it's introducing stress into what should be a relaxing and pleasurable activity to change it into

You're sitting wrong
You're holding your fork wrong
That's wrong, do it differently
Wrong. Stop and do it how I say.
You're cutting that wrong.
You haven't cut that enough.
You're eating the wrong order.
You haven't mixed it up together on the back of your fork, that's wrong.
You've moved it to your mouth wrong.
You've put it into your mouth wrong.
You're using your teeth and tongue wrong.
You're enjoying the taste too much, that's wrong.
You're disgusting.
You're revolting.
You make me sick.
You're sitting wrong.
You're holding your fork wrong again.
Why are you eating it that way, we brought you up better.
You're just an animal, you should be eating from a bowl on the floor like the dog you are.
How dare you not want to put everything down when you're hungry and not a little stressed and speak to us.
How dare you speak when we speak to you whilst you're eating.
Elbows.
Can't you chew it more?
Don't chew it like that.
Sit up straight.
Everybody's going to feel sick when they see you, nobody's ever going to love you, you're inherently unlovable because of food.
This is not a drill, this is another scrutiny which you are FAILING.
Sit up straight.
God, I feel sick at you slurping and gorging and shovelling.
Elbows.
Chew. Your. Food.
SIT UP.
No, you can't leave the table. This is how you learn to be a decent human being, not a savage. So stay put and ENJOY THE EXPERIENCE.
Isn't it wonderful to have family meals at the table?

Just leave them alone, take the stress and scrutiny out of food and focus your eyes somewhere other than their mouth.

You need to focus on one thing at a time. As @NeverDropYourMooncup says, it's way too stressful if you try to fix too much at once. But as she did not say, you do still need to fix things. Family meals are about social skills and not casuing intense disgust to other diners is an important life skill.

My DC was younger but I got him to stop eating with his mouth open when I figured out that the problem was he was taking mouthfuls that were much too large. So I bribed him (he was young enough for that!) to take smaller mouthfuls - smaller portions on the fork or spoon, smaller bites. That way he could chew and swallow before he needed to breathe. I didn't even insist on it for the whole meal. 10 small mouthfuls at the start of the meal earned the prize. Once he got the hang of it, it stuck.

For someone older you could probably just lay it on the line - he needs to learn to take smaller bites and finish eating before he takes another bite or speaks. It takes practice.

I saw it suggested elsewhere that the ‘applause’ reaction could be used sarcastically. Tempted to do so here!

I didn't say it because it's not true.

Meals are about eating. An essential part of living. You can try and dress it up as a social occasion, a time to work at being socially acceptable to others who feel they are more evolved, but fundamentally, biologically, meals are about food, not making others feel inferior, inadequate and that they are some subhuman creature that must be picked at and criticised.

This is exactly what we did. They’d been brought up with manners, they knew what was appropriate but it all went out the window at high school. It only took two meals of “you will wait until we’ve finished until you can eat by yourself at the table” and the manners soon returned.

I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks

You do realise the entire concept of manners is based around caring what other people think?

So we should all start acting + eating like animals then? Should OP start letting him walk round naked too and tell him that it’s ok to disregard basic hygiene for fear of causing ‘anxiety’? Don’t be ridiculous.

Manners cost nothing and the average 14 year old is more than capable of using them, most 4 year olds can eat politely for goodness sake! He is simply choosing not to. A vile habit and disrespectful to those around him

I haven't read every other suggestion, but does he have dyspraxia or another co-ordination issue? Is he clumsy or struggle in other ways, dressing himself, tying laces, buttons, can he ride a bike or use chop sticks?

All depends on the standard’s one teaches for raising confident, polite, well rounded, attractive socially children I suppose. All best done with kindness, example, reinforced “that’s good”. But basic life skills are the responsibility of parents, and will benefit children as they get older and progress. Far too much is being left for others such as teachers at the prime learning skills stage. Any child heading to reception classes without a few basics such as toilet training, eating properly, learning how to interact with others, being patient is on the back foot already. Accept that it’s not easy for some children, but striving to do better is another positive growing skill.

Do you have other children OP?

I'd introduce the 'chocolate bar game' adapted from a 1970s kids game.

Each child gets a bar of chocolate, it has to be bars with the little squares.

Each child gets a knife and fork.

You set a timer for 3 mins, or 5 or 0, it depends on your child.

In the 3 mins they can eat as much chocolate as they can but they must use the knife and fork to cut the square. They can only eat chocolate that has been cut in to the squares. They must use the fork to get the piece in to their mouths.

If anyone opens their mouth other than to put chocolate in they lose 10 seconds time.

The reason for choosing chocolate is that it will melt without any chewing, but if you chew you get more chocolate.

As I said adapted from a party game so I don't know how well it will work but give it a try.

You do know that this is the sort of language that creates eating disorders? It's also the language that is used in domestic abuse.

Maybe your desired outcome is a kid and then adult who can't stand been seen to eat, who fasts, starves and binges with those words echoing in their heads with every taste, then purges to get those words out again - or just doesn't eat more than a scrap until their bones crumble, their heart fails or their pregnancy ends at 27 weeks.

Personally, I'd rather direct my eyes towards the salt and have them healthy and happy.

You've said you've spoken to him numerous times about this and he's still ignoring you on this issue.

What consequences is he facing for continuing to be disrespectful and rude?

I think this is assuming quite a lot about how long this has been going on for (I doubt it has only just occurred to OP to do something about it) and how school-ready he was. There is a great deal of luck, individual child personality and misplaced smugness involved in perfect parenting. (FWIW my children have socially acceptable table manners so no skin in the game 🤷‍♀️.)

Mealtimes are social occasions or we'd all eat alone and family mealtimes are an ideal opportunity to teach children how to avoid causing disgust to others without making them feel inferior, inadequate or subhuman. But if you can't see that, never mind. You do you.

That way he could chew and swallow before he needed to breathe.

Why doesn't he breathe through his nose? No need to open his mouth to breathe.

That's easier for some than others. Especially if you're taking over-large mouthfuls in the first place.

The way to build up a child's confidence is to teach them simple strategies that are easy to do. Taking small bites is not difficult. Checking your mouth is empty before you open it is not difficult if you didn't overfill your mouth in the first place. If a child has braces then maybe they need to take extra-small bites until they learn to manage them. Especially for a youngster with ADHD or sensory issues these solutions simply may not have occurred to them, or they may forget and need reminding now and again.

If he doesn't eat with you he won't improve - he can be really lax on his own

The only thing that worked for me was pulling them up Every. Single. Time.

DC - hold your knife properly
DC - stop waving your fork about
DC - close your mouth
DC - stop shovelling
DC - cut that potato, it's too big
DC - food to mouth not mouth to food
etc etc

I know I sounded like my mother and it's exhausting - but it works. Whatever their age

Re the braces - rubbish. I've had train tracks twice and neither time did they affect eating in that way.

If you keep doing the same thing expecting a different result, you will get very frustrated.

Perhaps you could try commenting about how much you like it when he chews properly? It's lovely when you eat your food with your mouth closed, or Thank you for wiping your mouth.

If he hasn't managed that yet, you can try the When you do X, I feel Y formula, then praise him when he's doing what you want.

Ds1 had appalling table manners at 14. Can't remember when but it has sorted itself out and 5 years later, his table manners are just fine.
DS3 is now 14 and also has bad manners, shovelling the food down, food dropping from his mouth. I'm being more patient this time round.

They're also the loci for a lot of issues in both family dynamics and with food in general.

Yep, having been spoken to frequently, I'd expect him to be making an effort.

He is basically giving his family and friends the 🖕.

A toddler is capable of eating nicely. A teenager is just being a slob. As for the 'abuse' of making a strong point, give me strength..