Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

[Onand]

Is anyone else sick and tired of the huge number of ‘homeless’ beggars, alcoholics and addicts that descended on the streets since the Christmas rush started this year?

Manchester is rife with them- this year there is a particularly ropey bunch of alcoholics/ addicts that are obnoxiously ‘sleeping’ or sitting with their bags pointing directly out into the street instead of being against a wall, they’re building ‘dens’ in shop doorways which stink of human faeces and piss, dealers go from spot to spot, dogs forced to sit in uncomfortable situations (often not even their dog as the same one gets passed from beggar to beggar).

It’s a self perpetuating problem because soup kitchens serving buffets set up and cater meals for them whilst they’re generally being a nuisance and making the streets look an absolute shitty mess. Why are they tolerated? People need to stop giving them money as it just encourages them to keep doing it when there are services in place to help them.

Bah humbug I know, but It’s beyond grim.

Begging is an industry. There an are some who are genuinely homeless, but there are vast numbers are just taking the naive ‘be kind ‘ brigade for a ride.

It’s not virtuous to be naive. It’s stupid.

Apparently, the female Big Issue sellers are likely to be Roma https://thecritic.co.uk/the-issue-with-the-big-issue/

You've really completed this extensive research on your local population?

I think it’s fine to point out aggressive behaviour and feeling unsafe. I think it’s fine to point out an increase in these situations. It’s fine to find it difficult to witness and want solutions. The ‘othering’ language and the ‘ew that doesn’t look nice’ shows a complete lack of empathy though and that’s not ok. These are people. People who are vulnerable in different ways. That doesn’t mean we accept aggressive behaviour - that needs pointing out whether it’s someone in a sharp suit or a worn out hoody. We can be concerned at how our society is developing without dehumanising people.

I agree with you @Onand it’s grim. There are homeless charities that go out in Manchester every night and offer help and assistance. They don’t want it. The generosity of the people of Manchester keeps them on the streets, they are fed and watered well. I remember one of these charities coming to do a talk at my place of work once, they were saying the best thing to do is to donate to charities not give money/food to the homeless which just keeps them there. So that is what I do.

And yes the stink in Manchester of shit and piss is horrible.

The Big Issue is now a problem because gangs use it and it legitimises the begging. I haven’t bought one for years. Just as @Verydemure has succinctly pointed out. People are ridiculously naive.

Did you read the post by @housethatbuiltme who has actually been homeless?

I hate this time of year. If you are a member of the general public and are concerned, report it politely to your local Council. You can also report to a homeless charity who will let the council know.

Please be aware that there are people ‘performing for the Christmas crowds’ so don’t get on your high horse if you think that someone isn’t being helped when known to services. They are.

Also note that there are patrols of staff going around to check for rough sleepers so 9/10 they are already known about before you report it. There are places people go to which are hidden to rough sleep which are watched. The guy in the doorway of m and s is there for your benefit.

Domestic abuse means different things to different people. This time of year can bring out the arguments. So aswell as people who do need to flee for their own safety (who are given support to do so) we have people in tents with ongoing tenancies who refuse to go home because they were asked to wash up citing abuse to anyone who will listen. We have to thoroughly unpick each one so we can sleep at night.

Please also note that as the asylum process is somewhat overwhelmed, people are coming with issues. Or they don’t like the hotel. Or more often they thought the streets were paved with gold and are now very cross they’ve spent their life savings (between 5k to 30k) to get here and are trying to now make a scene because they are furious. Or they’ve been declined but won’t leave. All in various languages with little English. They take time to deal with.

There is somewhere for everyone to stay which has been assessed to meet their need. when people don’t like it they take to the street. I understand that an average Joe doesn’t want it be in a shared house with drug dealers. That rarely happens, it’s more people don’t want to share with drug dealers who they owe money to. Or they don’t want to live too far from the dealer they know.

Please also remember we have an extensive safety net in the UK. If you let staff do their jobs then more people get the right help more quickly. When the general public with half the story get swept up with the drama of it, and start complaining and kicking off, it makes it harder for everyone. One of the biggest time sucker expenses is dealing with the virtue signallers.

Do not give to beggars.

If you were really aware of the stuff in your last paragraph you wouldn't have written the rest of the post.

Several years ago a colleague and I reported a group of Eastern European women begging on the streets, dressed in little more than rags and carrying a sleeping (drugged?) baby. Different women but same baby - identifying birthmark. Dropped off early morning by men in flashy cars, picked up about 7 pm by the same men. Arrests were made, the women and baby taken to safety.

I give to homeless charities, including a brilliant one in my nearby city, but never to individual beggars.

I think the equation of "homeless people" and "street beggars" is very harmful to homeless people in general, and reduces public sympathy and understanding.

When I talk about the problem of homelessness in class, students always bring up the person being dropped off in a car outside their local supermarket etc. I've had students who were homeless and staying in temp B&B accommodation - it was so unfair that everyone was lumped in together in the mind of the class.

Homelessness and begging are not synonymous. Begging happens for many reasons. I never give directly but will offer to buy food if I’ve got the time/money. But we can (and should) have conversations about this issue in ways that don’t dehumanise people. We could all end up in a desperate situation.

How do you know?

Anyone with experience working in this sector will tell you never, ever give money directly to people who are homeless or appear to be. Give to charities who know what they're doing.

Some are, some aren’t. Shopkeepers who open up early report seeing some people arriving in taxis to then sit and beg all day.

It’s better to donate to Shelter and the Salvation Army or local projects.

Precisely!

Wow
Yeah you’re probably right, I’m sure most of them chose to sleep on wet bedding in a tent (or “den” as you call them) 🙄

I think if I was homeless in the freezing cold, I'd probably take drugs or alcohol to deal with it.

Never judge till you've walked in their shoes.

In London, The Met have advised to not give to homeless people as there is a HUGE problem with Romainian organised crime gang controlling genuine homeless - and faking beggars.

Romanian police are actually working in London to stop this but not proving very successful as it's been going on for years!

I've personally witnessed 2 'homeless people' jump into a Porsche and drive away.

You shouldn't be so quick to judge!!!

You seem to pick on and despise substance abusers, any particular reason you hate them so much. Have you ever considered opening up your home to a homeless person or offering them a hit meal and bed for the night especially when it's really cold outside.

Perhaps just ponder on your own question a little…?
What might someone’s life need to look like for them to think moving to another country without a home is preferable??

Some. Not all.

"You will be visited by three ghosts " .
But as a serious reply , although some will be " fake homeless" , looking for money , most will be in dreadful circumstances and need support . Noone chooses addition or homelessness as a planned choice and most will have a sad history which has brought them to this place . Hopefully OP , you donate to one of the established charities that help .

In my (mostly rural) area there are three towns, all with completely different presentations of street homelessness.
The most affluent of them has Roma gang beggars, but their presence is quite subtle.
My more deprived seaside town has more alcoholic/addict street homeless people than ever before, but no Roma beggars. I have never known any of these to be aggressive although some get a bit too 'party party' in the summer and can be intimidating.
The cool/artsy small town further away has no visible street homelessness at all. - at least, that I've seen on my frequent trips there. It also has poor transport links and no railway station.

Haven't read the full thread but ....

Bloody hell, where's your heart????

My brother was homeless for a bit 20 or so years ago due to severe and undiagnosed schizophrenia. He is the most wonderful.man I know. So caring, thoughtful, kind, intelligent, warm. To think of him on the streets, likely being taken advantage of in many ways due to his vulnerability at the time, deeply saddens me and rips at my heart.

I have worked throughout my life with people with mental health probs, substance use probs, etc.. and it's hardly fun begging. Do you ave any understanding how humiliating it is? How desperate you have to be?

Being alcoholic isn't a life choice. People don't dream as children of growing up to be an alcoholic. People don't dream about growing up to live in a doorway and smell of wee.

We as a society are collectively responsible. Most of these adults slipped through various nets as children and have been failed by services as adults.

And we are all a stones throw away from this ourselves you know. I have a home worth well over a quarter of a million, a consultant level job, a fabulous marriage and two wonderful children. But I am not naive enough to think I'm superior in any way. I know that I am very lucky and that in a drop of a hat I could be in that homeless person's shoes. Life has a funny way of knocking you sideways.