Tired of the performative beggars and alcoholics this time of year

[Onand]

Is anyone else sick and tired of the huge number of ‘homeless’ beggars, alcoholics and addicts that descended on the streets since the Christmas rush started this year?

Manchester is rife with them- this year there is a particularly ropey bunch of alcoholics/ addicts that are obnoxiously ‘sleeping’ or sitting with their bags pointing directly out into the street instead of being against a wall, they’re building ‘dens’ in shop doorways which stink of human faeces and piss, dealers go from spot to spot, dogs forced to sit in uncomfortable situations (often not even their dog as the same one gets passed from beggar to beggar).

It’s a self perpetuating problem because soup kitchens serving buffets set up and cater meals for them whilst they’re generally being a nuisance and making the streets look an absolute shitty mess. Why are they tolerated? People need to stop giving them money as it just encourages them to keep doing it when there are services in place to help them.

Bah humbug I know, but It’s beyond grim.

Homelessness is a very complex issue and giving them money can do more harm than good. Donate to charity or give the genuine ones food instead.

@Ebeneser hey but aren’t you missing something? When they ignore the advice of homeless charities and give a few quid directly, they get to feel warm and fuzzy and virtuous inside like they’ve did something really good (even though they haven’t) and that’s all that matters surely? 😵‍💫

I'd avoid it at night, in particular, especially after around 8pm.

Avoid walking through or right by the car park on Aytoun Street also. That place always felt weird to me and whilst I worked in Manchester, a woman was raped there and it wasn't even in the early hrs of the morning.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4792196,-2.2347932,3a,75y,258.85h,96.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sIdxYQpd2OWtSwrGPKTNgNA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-6.674985496485817%26panoid%3DIdxYQpd2OWtSwrGPKTNgNA%26yaw%3D258.8456230432279!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

It’s what causes addiction that is the main issue. Social inequality, poverty, trauma and abuse, poor mental health, social isolation, physical health conditions, lack of suitable housing, lack of community supports. It is a systemic issue which needs addressing as such.

Anyone can become an addict- it's not limited to those who have suffered trauma or those from socially and economically deprived backgrounds. I have witnessed addiction among my own family and friends- all from loving middle class families. There are also plenty of people who have suffered trauma and people from terribly poor backgrounds who don't become addicts and manage to make a success of their life. The choice ultimately lies with the individual- each of us can only take responsibility for own life whatever hand we've been dealt because nobody can help you if you are not prepared to help yourself.

Your 6yo doesn't actually understand it though does she? Basic compassion is not the same as actually understanding a very complex situation. The reality isn't as black and white as it is in the mind of a small child.

Not always men on the streets though?

It does make you wonder. There is a woman who sits outside a local supermarket. She has been there for years. You can pay her by credit card on a sum up machine!

I think the issue is that for every genuinely homeless person, there are three that arent.

Woman who begs outside the supermarket I used to work in is a case in point. We knew she was on the make but she dressed the part, acted the part and people fell for it. Then one day she came in to get some shopping and it really was a cartoon style double take moment when we realised that this beautifully dressed, very well groomed middle aged lad with her grandon was in fact that lady who every other day would stand outside the shop looking like she slept in a skip and dressed in rags. She lived in a 3 bed semi around the corner from one of my colleagues who hadnt realised out that her neighbour and the beggar at work where the same person.

It works for a while but people cotton on and those who genuinely could do with some food or money dont get given any help. There was an article in the local paper from the YMCA about the influx of professional beggars causing big problems for real homeless people including violence towards them for "stealing" their preferred patch.

Well you seem very nice - not!

My brother was homeless and died on the streets because he had a mental breakdown. He was an "ordinary bloke", a privately educated, taxation accountant but also homeless. Family tried to help but he wasn't in the frame of mind ...

He was killed on the streets of Mayfair by a well meaning stranger on Christmas Eve who gave a bottle of whiskey to the beggar - a corporate gift - death by acute alcoholic poisoning.

Do you know what left wing means?

Your experience does not override what the empirical research states. Poverty and addiction is strongly linked, as is abuse / trauma and addiction. They go hand in hand. You can be middle class and still experience trauma and abuse. People with chronic, long term substance use (that results in homelessness) have a history of trauma the vast majority of the time. There can be various factors that act as buffers against developing addiction, most of these are rooted in privilege such as having a secure home, money, some amount of stability, social support, insight and motivation (much easier when not living in survival mode), access to education and employment opportunities. There is a big difference between dabbling in cocaine and MDMA in your twenties, and being addicted to crystal meth in your forties, losing limbs and living on the streets between stints in NHA funded rehabs. It is absolutely an issue of social deprivation- it is a systemic issue, not an individual one. That is a very Tory mentality, and totally ignorant of the realities of addiction.

It is not an even playing field and we do not have equal choices. Someone who grew up watching their parents high on heroin, in poverty does not have the same ‘choices’ of someone who grew up in a middle class area with safe and emotionally literate parents who gets offered MDMA at a party. These are two vastly different worlds. The former is more likely to use and depend on drugs as a form of emotional regulation, a way of blanking out from and coping with trauma. The latter is more likely to use drugs recreationally to experiment. Of course it is perfectly possible to use drugs and not get addicted, that’s what happens with the majority of people. But the ones who end up dependent will have underlying vulnerabilities to this. You can have millions in the bank and still have an addiction, but to ignore the strong links between poverty (and trauma and abuse) and drug addiction is just plain wrong.

It is easy to have choices when you are privileged.

No idea if he's genuine or just great at marketing.

And this is where we are folks. We now live in a world where everything, from being a yummy mummy on Instagram to being homeless, can be marketed and monetised.

That it is now the default assumption, displays the resulting deep cynicism (probably rightly) across society.

People are no longer human beings. They are products. They will sell you their bodies on only fans, their cleaning tips on Tik Tok, their lowest moments on the street.

In short we're fucked in the compassion stakes. And I can't read anymore of this thread as it would make the worst Dickensian villain proud and has made me deeply depressed.

Yes anyone can become an addict but its foolish to try and suggest that there isnt a far greater chance of a person becoming an addict if they start out in life with less choices. Chaotic home life, with addiction often already in the home, is known to lead a child to be far more likely to develop an addiction themselves.

Less choices is more likely to lead to bad choices.

The is a strong correlation between poverty and addiction and trauma and addiction though. And if you combine two of these factors you are more likely to become homeless.

@Lunde I'm sorry to hear about your brother, what a tragedy. So sad he couldn't be helped💐

Some, probably most are genuine. Sometimes early in the freezing cold morning you see them sleeping in doorways and I'm sure they're not choosing too.
My DD sometimes gives food to people on the street rather than money. She feels sorry for them, especially if they have a dog. They always seem grateful, which suggests they have a genuine need.
I know around 15 years ago my cousin's boyfriend was talking to a beggar who said he drove his car in to town to do begging and then showed him a year old BMW.

We have the same woman who appears every Christmas to sell the Big Issue. I bought it from her once and she asked me for money as well which I don't think they are supposed to do. I gave her some change but I don't buy the Big Issue from her anymore and very few people do. Everyone knows she just comes for Christmas

Why don't people realise this?
Begging is very lucrative if one has a good spot.

I live in a very small town and we have the same Big Issue sellers that we never see throughout the year, but come Christmas time they are out in force. They make nasty comments if you don't buy a copy or give them money.

Ah but it says things that people don’t like to hear so it MUST be a “right wing rag” pushing a fascist agenda and read by racist “gammons”. Or something.

Homelessness is a very complex issue.
The increasing unaffordability of housing is no doubt a large contributing factor. It's hard to see how this can improve and I worry that we will end up with tent cities as in the USA ☹️

Most of these beggars aren’t even homeless!

There are many children of wealthy people who become full on addicts.
These as children had the very 'best' but were lacking in some way, probably boarding school and a remote relationship with their parents, brought up by Nannies.

Heroin and cocaine especially appeal.

They don't have to scratch about or steal or beg, but there are a lot of wealthy addicts out there.

They may not be literally living outdoors but most will have very unstable accommodation. Their lives are an absolute piece of shit. I feel bad for them. Not that I can afford to give them any money.
If I was a multimillionaire I would try and give the more genuine seeming ones a few quid in winter.
A lot seem to be controlled by Roma gangs from what I've heard. So sadly anyone who looks like they're from that community gets somewhat shunned by me. Despite their lives clearly being rubbish. I do take them as scammers. Even if some aren't. Which makes me feel sad as it makes me feel like I'm racist. Which is absolutely appalling. And goes against everything I believe in.

Ages ago it was, I was a student. A lady sitting on a sleeping bag was begging outside Burgher King in Tottenham Court Road. That day I decided to give myself a treat, hence Burgher King. The cheapest meal I was going to get for myself was 6 pounds. I asked the lady if I could buy her a burgher meal. She agreed and walked with me and her sleeping bag in. Naively, I said - could we please have 2 meals, pointing to the cheapest version, stupidly thinking that beggars can't be choosers and I had the right to order. Oh, no, said the lady, I don't eat that rubbish, I only eat Aberdeen angus burgher and I don't eat chips or drink fizzy drinks. I paid for her one burgher, because I was too stupid to say to her 'can't you see, I am a student, you are being rude and ungrateful and I never had enough money to have an Aberdeen angus steak', and walked away. It was a good lesson for me. I still give to charities and i still give to the beggars in the streets, but now I know that not all poor people are automatically wonderful and not all wealthy people are horrid by default.