... To not bother fighting back - 50/50 contact

[TokyoSunburm]

Name changed for this and please be gentle as I am in pieces.

I split up with ExH 5 years ago. DCs are now 11 (year 6) and 6 (year 1). It has not been an amicable break-up. ExH wanted full custody of DCs and accused me of all sorts of things which weren't true in the family courts. The outcome of the court cases thus far was that they live with me and spend time with him (EOW and Wed-Thu in term-time, and half of the holidays. Christmas alternates. First day of school year alternates. Easter alternates). I wanted very much to co-parent but ExH has always insisted on 'parallel parenting'. He refuses to divulge any information about what they are doing when with the DCs and has even kept girlfriends a secret - I have found out about them from the DCs.

Most crucially: the DCs do not enjoy going to their dad's and there are always tears before the longer trips away (e.g. half term, Easter, before they go to him in the summer). He was completely uninvolved in their care before we split up and is not very accommodating of children. He has unrealistic expectations for them and is very cold towards them. (He was also financially abusive, emotionally abusive and sexually abusive towards me. I am in therapy and am only really seeing how awful he was now, years later.)

He has just filed new paperwork, requesting 50/50. I understand that this is the "new normal" and very likely to be granted. I am obviously devastated. This will be the forth time in court - each time he has taken me to court he's got progressively more time with the DCs.

I feel like I have PTSD from the family court. It was absolute hell. CAFFCASS didn't listen. The judge was horrible. The cross-examination was terrifying.

As is, the DC spend most of their time with me. It's not ideal but at least they view here as their home. The idea of 50/50 terrifies me and I think it would be extremely detrimental for the DC. But I have extremely limited spoons at this point and have spent all my savings... So I would have to borrow money from elderly parents to hire a solicitor and barrister.

I know several couples who've split up lately and they are all doing 50/50 in one way or another, following court rulings.

WIBU to just agree to 50/50 care as it's so likely to happen anyway? Or is it worth fighting to keep the status quo? I spoke to a solicitor today who said "prepare for the worst" so I am not sure if it's even worth the fight.

Any advice would be welcome.

The o,Der child is old enough to have input. It's not a lost cause. I would fight.

Well the older DC will be able to make their own decision of where they want to be in a year, regardless of what that piece of paper says.

I never communicated with DDs dad unless it was essential medical info or about medication and once she turned 12 she arranged her own contact as she sees fit and I don't get involved

There are pros and cons of him having them more, you get a better break, more self care, better able to do chores and food prep so all your time with them is quality.

I bet if you mentioned in passing what a good idea 50:50 is as you and your new partner will be able to see each other more hell soon drop it like hot coal as his aim is to inconvenience you and men like him hate to think of you moving on.

I'm not a fan of this new normal but just wanted to say don't give up. Keep fighting and documenting everything and don't bother coparenting. It's not over till it's over, op.

I'm really sorry it's so hard x

Certainly at age 11 and even at age 6 your children should be asked by an independent person what they would like, are they wanting to change the current arrangement. 50/50 is often the right thing but so is cooperation between parents which he doesn't sound like he's doing. The children I know who have done the best post divorce as older children had access to both households and parents let them choose without any form of coercion, no bad mouthing the other parent and being really flexible do both parents get a life too

'I bet if you mentioned in passing what a good idea 50:50 is as you and your new partner will be able to see each other more hell soon drop it like hot coal as his aim is to inconvenience you and men like him hate to think of you moving on.'

This. When my ex insisted he wanted 50:50, I packed 2yo ds' bag, acted gleefully and went away for a weekend. Ex found he needed to cook, change nappies , spend time feeding and entertaining ds, while I was off enjoying myself. He never asked for 50:50 again, and didn't have ds overnight until he was 5.

Thank you for all the replies.
There is no cooperation at all. Everything is a battle
Things (clothes, PE kit, etc.) go missing all the times then he lies and says he doesn't have them.
I don't think that doing reverse psychology would work on him, he has been totally obsessed with getting his kids since we first split up. I think for him it is about control. He sees them as his belongings. Also I think it is to do with child maintenence- he didn't pay anything for the first year as I didn't get round to asking. He pays very little.

I totally agree; I have friends who did what was essentially 50/50 in the 90s but their parents co-parented amazingly and put their differences to one side for the sake of their kids. Would go to parents evenings together, and later, graduations and weddings. ExH refuses to go to parents evenings and always gets his own appointment separately through the school. Never turns up for birthday parties although I invite him. Refuses to tell me anything even when I ask (e.g. "are you still taking DC to dance class as they are asking if they are going back this term?"). It is absolutely impossible to co-parent and if it is 50/50 it will be even harder than it is now.

I am not aware that anything will be put in place for asking DC's opinions... Can I request this? DC have both made it really clear to be that they don't want to see their dad on numerous occasions. They have also told their childminder this.

Thanks, @mumofoneallalone it is so hard to not want to give up. It has been relentless, either in family court or recovering from it for last 5+ years. I am absolutely exhausted by the whole thing.

My brother has 3 children with his ex partner. 2 have gone through court and youngest is still in process. 1 lives full time with my brother and has no contact with there mother. 2nd lives with her but can see my brother when they choose. 3rd we're unsure on the outcome but likely similar to 2nd child.

I wouldn't give up.

Thank you @Chester23. I would love for it to be like that for my DC as they get older. That they can come and go from me to ExH as they please. The older DC didn't come out of school on time the other week and the school were ringing me asking if I had the DC at home with me because ExH was making a big fuss. Turned out DC had just gone with a friend to the office so was late coming out.

I don't know how ExH is expecting secondary school to work, when DC will be going to and from school independently and might go home to me.

What percent does he have at present? 50% is going to be more work and if he's not great he'll soon get bored I'd imagine

Oh OP this sounds so hard.

I haven’t split from my husband in the end but we went through all the process (living separately, had solicitors involved).

I was going to suggest I had the children (1 and 4) and he could have eow style set up. I think he was going to eventually go for 50:50. My understanding from my solicitor is that unless there’s hard evidence of physical abuse of the parent to the child then often the court sees no reason NOT to grant 50;50. This is now the default.

I was 10 when my parents divorced and then tried 50:50 for a bit and it was fucking awful. Left PE kid at dad’s house and homework etc. cried every time I had to go to his. In the end luckily both parents realised I needed a permanent home and my mum was main carer.

i really really didn’t want to share our children 50:50 if we had split as I feel this isn’t best for them but apparently the courts now do think this is best for children.

in my situation I also didn’t have any money at all unless I borrowed from elderly parents, I wasn’t going to fight 50;50 as I reckon there’s a high chance I would have lost. So that’s my personal opinion. You’d need really good ammunition to fight 50:50 as they are so keen on dads being equally present nowadays

I’d fight on if you don’t think it will be healthy for the children to go 50:50

My ex pushed for 50:50 for a mix of financial reasons and spite/control

After interviewing us both, and the children, the court could see that the respectable co-parenting set up that would be needed for 50:50 was woefully absent and awarded that the children live with me and spend time with their dad (EOW set up)

I don't have any advice on the legal side of things, but you know this will be detrimental to your children so you fight with all you've got. Yes it will be hard, but don't give up fighting. Your kids depend on that.
Really hope things get better for you and your kids, this sounds so incredibly awful...

This is why I didn’t claim CM. I realise going without the money isn’t an option for everyone but it was very clear where exH priorities lay - once there was no financial penalty he barely showed up.

Thank you - this is exactly what my argument would be... 50/50 could work really well if parents can get on and be respectful etc. There is not a jot of evidence that ExH is anything but petty and spiteful in his communication with me. He has been a bit more curteous in the last few months but apparently that is enough to show that 'he's able to do it' and so the judge will go off that, not off the rest of the last almost-6 years when he has teased, goaded, and just generally been a massive dickhead about every little thing.
I'm not sure if that is why he didn't get 50/50 last time around. The judge didn't say anything about his (absolutely vile) behaviour towards me.

I'm absolutely convinced ExH is doing it for control reasons. And so he doesn't have to pay maintenence. He doesn't pay a lot, given what I think his earnings must be, but I am sure he hates it. I kind of wish I hadn't asked for it.

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/legal-aid-if-you-have-been-a-victim-of-domestic-abuse-or-violence/

Don't use a solicitor as it's a waste of money swing as you will likely loose. But you should still fight it. Your eldest is possibly old enough to have their views taken into account so there is hope.

My abusive ex got contact and it breaks my heart seeing the damage it does to my children. But when dd asks me why she has to go I can say court order. When they are adults if they ever question what happened I will tell them I fought and I lost. I was abused myself as a child and more than he abuse the most damaging thing was my parents not protecting me, not believing me and not fighting for my safety. So I know how important it is to kids who are suffering to know a parent cared enough to try. You owe your kids enough to try.

Try not to stress. Expect not to win so the grief doesn't overwhelm you in the fight. You own your kids a sane mother too. It's not fair and it's not reasonable women suffer this way but it's not the children's fault and if we don't fight for them no one will

I was going to suggest I had the children (1 and 4) and he could have eow style set up. I think he was going to eventually go for 50:50. My understanding from my solicitor is that unless there’s hard evidence of physical abuse of the parent to the child then often the court sees no reason NOT to grant 50;50. This is now the default.

This is what I understand it to be as well @Nc546888 🙁 The default is 50/50 and from what I was told, if DC have been going to ExH for last 5+ years, this means that they are safe in his care (even though they hate going to his! And there have been issues!) Also that judges see PRIVATE law proceedings as 2 people who are both able to parent to an acceptable standard and they think that both parents are fine they just want to bang your heads together. (As opposed to the cases when the local authority is applying for a care order or adoption etc. and there is significant neglect.) DC come home after a weekend away with matted hair and dirty clothes but apparently that is OK 🤷‍♀️ it's still within the realm of acceptable.

I do wonder what goes on in the judge's minds, how would they feel if it was their own kids or grandkids being forced to go to contact with someone they didn't want to see.

Sorry if I’ve missed it but how would this work physically?

Does he live close to their school?
Does he have flexible working/do they go to school club?

Usually 50/50 doesn’t work because not everyone can/is willing to work around the kids.

Yes this is what I understood - if the kids have been having unsupervised contact with the father with no abuse then he’s not a risk and therefore this is the status quo. This is what will continue.
unless the kids come back from the dads with bruises then there is no reason to reduce contact or prevent 50:50 should the father wish for it

You’ve given me a lightbulb moment OP. I had never heard of parallel parenting and that what my exH has implemented much like the boiling frog analogy. TBH it helps my mental health as he is a very controlling person and it certainly sounds like it’s the same in your situation.
As for older children having a say, I can’t comment as my own are subjected to emotional guilt tripping by him. I do wonder at one point whether I’ll have to involve the court as currently it’s largely on his terms and as I left him, I apparently must be punished and he doesn’t want the children to spend any more time with me than necessary.
I hope you find help to resolve this.

@theycantburnusall I agree, I cannot believe how much I have spent on Solicitor's fees and barrister fees over the years. It honestly makes me want to weep.

I'm so very sorry that you are going through similar. It really is unbelievable unless you have been through it yourself 💐💐💐
And I am so sorry you went through that as a child also xx

Before all of this I'd have never believed that abusers would get contact - I think I would have assumed that if they were abusive to the mother then that would mean they would not be good parents either and the court would acknowledge this.

You also make a good point about the kids needing a sane mother!! When I think about how much this has affected my mental health, and that ExH surely knows the impact all this legal abuse has had on my stress levels... I just think what kind of a man makes his children's mother sick with anxiety? And gets away with it? It's fucked up.

I can only imagine 🥺

People are so evil, honestly, and courts are so keen to protect men that women are suffering in the process

Just one day at a time and remember that those children love you. You are their safe place and nobody else can be that to them x

From recent personal experience 50/50 is not always a given.

Your eldest child’s opinions will likely be taken inconsideration by CAFCASS.

Was your ex seeking 50/50 in the previous set of proceedings? If so then I believe that he will need to prove to the court what has now changed to make this arrangement feasible, given that this was not ordered in the previous set of proceedings. If he cannot then he may not be able to get past the initial directions hearing. You may also wish to consider asking for an order to prevent future applications for a certain amount of time. From personal experience, courts do not like parents continuing to bring the matter back to court to request the same thing again without there being a significant change in circumstances, especially if previous proceedings have been very long.

I would strongly recommend seeking initial advice legally, even if you do have tomorrow the money from your parents for an initial appointment, instead of just accepting it will be 50/50.