To think all NICU nurses should wear body cams to keep babies safe?

[ElsaGreen]

After the awful tragedy of the Lucy Letby case, we need to do more to protect the most vulnerable children, children who cannot even speak for themselves.

Letby is not the first nurse to murder patients, there was also the case of Beverly Allitt. The doctor Harold Shipman also murdered patients... I know these healthcare professionals are in the minority...but how can vulnerable patients be kept safe without additional monitoring?

If we made all healthcare professionals wear body cameras would this help to prevent future murders?

You've got to think about cost vs benefit and the risks (data breaches, GDPR issues, loss of privacy/dignity) before making public policy.

Poor policies result from knee-jerk decision making.

No I don’t think that body cams on HCPs are the way to go. I do wonder if “baby monitor” style cams on paediatric beds with a single monitor at the nurses station would be useful for a number of reasons- inc. allowing lone parents/carers to nip for a wee/ to grab a sandwich quickly which is always a nightmare with slightly older babies/ little ones under a certain age.

I'm absolutely baffled now

Do you honestly believe that people proposing one or two home visits for homeschooled families is the equivalent of constant body cam footage. Is that REALLY you're belief...?

Some children are murdered by "loving parents"
I was raped and abused by my parent. Try having a think about why a tiny amount of oversight might be good. You maybe well have some but lots of areas don't or it's a cursory phone call once a year

So naive; shamefully so.

Because, unfortunately, not all parents are loving and not all home educated children are even getting an education at all.

There's a world of difference between medical professionals and home-educating parents.

Using babies in nicu to point score is fucking low, even for Mumsnet. Absolutely vile thread.

You're not a victim, stop acting like one.

They wear enough 'furniture' (pens, tongue depressors, scissors, etc) on their uniform without a camera.
It's an infection risk, and how do you hold a baby with bits of metal all over you?

No OP. I do not think it neccessary.

I wonder how many posters have had babies in NICU? I don’t mean just one night as baby was a bit distressed when they came out but Level 3 NICU for a month when you have to say good bye to your baby every night as there’s only one side room with a parent bed and 26 babies on the ward? And obviously many babies are there much much longer. For long stretches of time they are by themselves with no one to advocate for them and obviously they can’t speak up for themselves.

I don’t think body cams are the answer but cctv may help or baby monitor cams as suggested above. It was horrific leaving at night and seeing the night staff come on, flick on all the fluorescent lights on high beam (where they’d stay on all night into night beaming into the incubators), and turn up the radio to heavy rock music. The lovely day staff were all soothing music, soft voices and little shades over the incubators so the bright lights didn’t mean permanent daytime but the night staff….😨. Would have loved a baby monitor cam (but it would have made for hard viewing)

I didn't have a particular view about those who choose to home educate. I do now ...

Wow. I am a teacher and this would be like me being offended that I get DBS checked every year. I welcome it knowing it could help protect children and obviously I'm not an abuser so why would I worry?

If you're home educating your children to a good level surely you should be welcoming visits and oversight knowing this could prevent children from being abused or killed? And if you're doing a good job there's nothing to worry about.

For what's its worth most children I have worked with that have been previously home educated are usually really behind as they've been taken out after a dispute with a school and the parents haven't put anything in place to teach them a proper balanced curriculum when they're at home (not saying this is every home ed parentbut it shows there needs to be checks done)

Actually, I think there is a case for closed circuit cameras in NICU wards.

I'm a HCP, I'd love a body cam because the amount of times myself and my colleagues have been accused of promising something by patients is truly shocking. I've had GPs ringing me to ask me why I've promised their patient that I can get them moved up a waiting list or even onto different medication or that I've told them they can have a free wetroom fitted at home. All complete bullshit but desperate people don't care who they throw under a bus.
Like with the Police, bodycams protect everyone and as long as the patients dignity is not invaded (obviously no filming of body parts) I don't see the problem.
Lots of patients have cameras at home now, I'm used to being filmed.

No, dont be ridiculous.

Firstly, i find the evidence against LL to be unconvincing, whilst i know she was found guilty, articles i have read since have made me doubt the convinction.

Secondly, nurses, of all kind, perform tasks that display intimate areas of patients. whether that patien is newborn, 16, 60, or 106, dignity in care is paramount, and should not be recorded.

Thirdly, there are plenty of steps in place that hospitals could bring in to protect patients. One example is the insulin, ours is stored in a computer controlled fridge, it takes finger prints to open that fridge, we input how many units are being removed, pharmacy confirm the correct amount of medication is in the stores each day. This is all medications, right down to calpol. Controlled drugs, and anything being given by injection or IV are 2 nurse checked. Whilst medication errors do happen, nurses are human, over worked, under massive pressure, often caring for more acutely unwell patients at once than is considered "safe", they are traceable to the individual/s giving the medication and acted upon.

Fourthly, comparing it to regular checks on children withdrawn from mainstream education is ludicrus. All children should be visable to authorities. Having occasional checks on these children is in the best interests of all children.

I’m a nicu mum and that wasn’t my experience. I’d have complained about it if it were :(

@BoobyDazzler im glad you had a better experience. I was too traumatised to speak up and I felt that my baby might be penalised if I said something. Isn’t that terrible. And if you knew my day job you’d think it was even more ridiculous that I didn’t say something - but having had a lot of counselling it was a trauma response and I had shut down and wasn’t functioning properly.

🤔🙄No it's a ridiculous idea

It’s a shitty time, I don’t think any of us functioned normally :( My youngest is 15 and I don’t think I’m completely over it.

Oh to be the kind of mindless fuckwit that treats our experiences as something to be used as point scoring oneupmanship, hey.

Are you OK?

No I don't thing body cams are appropriate in a NICU. From an infection control or privacy pov. I say that as someone whose 24 weeker spent 4 months in a NICU who appreciates the LL scenario is rare. Also that there is lots is scope for checks and balances given the volume of staff and professionals involved in each child's care on a daily basis.

I also don't think the scenario is comparable to home schooling where a child will not most likely not necessarily see independent professional people daily.

An abortion is not the same as murdering a baby you absolute lunatic.

Honestly what ridiculous post and clearly someone who actually doesn't understand any of the worries about children in EHE outside of your own limited sphere. The recommendation primarily relates to children subject to child protection investigations or on child protection plan. In relation to other children - it clearly states they would only undertake these measures if there was evidence the home education is significantly failing the child. If you are not harming your child and are providing positive home education then you don't have anything to worry about do you.

The conspiracy theory is the serial baby-killer nurse.

@BoobyDazzler who’s the “mindless fuckwit” ? I really hope you’re not referring to me as I’m upset by this thread enough already 😨