To think Home Education should be made illegal

[Viviennemary]

I would like to see a ban on HE except perhaps in a very very few cases and with good reason and under strict supervision.

Particularly in situations where the "home educator" is thick as shit. I agree with you. It's often all about the parent, not the child.

'So many adults still don't understand basic science and it has huge ramifications at societal level'

Like what for example? Genuine question, I'm interested in how my lack of scientific knowledge impacts at societal level.

Is this in regard to the Sara Sharif case? Honestly, that case did make me think about home education in a totally different way - rather thoughtlessly, before this case, I thought of home schooling as a pleasant experience for children, where parents might wish to either teach their child full-time, or home school their child for, say, a term, if they feel their child needs a break. However, this case really opened my eyes to the potential for home education to be a part of child abuse - namely, isolating the child from any source of outside help/influence.

That being said, I would say that home education can be really nice. Not just for children with learning disabilities/ neurodivergence, who might find it less stressful to be home educated. I think it can also be really good for, say, parents who want to travel with their children - I read a lovely article about some parents who took their children out of school for a year in order to travel the country with them. During this time, they home schooled the children. The kids were in primary school, and I think that since it was only for a year, that year of home schooling probably did them better than worse. Yes, they missed out on socialisation with kids - but they got to explore lots of countries, forming amazing memories, and came back after a year.

So I propose a different form: instead of limiting home education, having a sturdier social services structure, and a sturdier investigation system (why does someone want to take their child into home education?). I also propose that, while a child is being home educated, there are regular supervision checks where someone actually goes inside the home and interviews the child one on one (WITHOUT the parent present, so the child can speak openly) to make sure everything is ok.

You only have to look at the amount of people who believe in antiscience bollocks like vaccines causing autism or amber beads helping teething to see how it's a problem.

Speaking from experience, it can all be done, at a price. You can get good kits - the ones we used were from the US and were a couple of hundred dollars each and not completely aligned with the UK curriculum, but good enough. I've since seen a couple of UK-based suppliers.
At GCSE, most kids sit IGCSE sciences. Practicals are typically assessed through an "alternative to practical" paper.
At A level, there are independent providers for the practical certification. It does cost several hundred pounds per subject. and that's on top of the exam fees.
So we did it, and there's no reason why it can't be done.
But I suspect we were among a minority (though a lot of kids go back to study in a school/college of some kind from 16). And I think the cost would put a lot of people off. As I said upthread, Local authorities should be covering exam entry fees. They could also provide an allowance to cover lab work, and it would still only be a fraction of 1 years cost of a state school place.

“the consequences of scientific illiteracy are far more dangerous in our time than in any that has come before. It’s perilous and foolhardy for the average citizen to remain ignorant about global warming, say, or ozone depletion, air pollution, toxic and radioactive wastes, acid rain, topsoil erosion, tropical deforestation, exponential population growth. Jobs and wages depend on science and technology. If our nation can’t manufacture, at high quality and low price, products people want to buy, then industries will continue to drift away and transfer a little more prosperity to other parts of the world. Consider the social ramifications of fission and fusion power, supercomputers, data “highways,” abortion, radon, massive reductions in strategic weapons, addiction, government eavesdropping on the lives of its citizens, high-resolution TV, airline and airport safety, fetal tissue transplants, health costs, food additives, drugs to ameliorate mania or depression or schizophrenia, animal rights, superconductivity, morning-after pills, alleged hereditary antisocial predispositions, space stations, going to Mars, finding cures for AIDS and cancer. How can we affect national policy—or even make intelligent decisions in our own lives—if we don’t grasp the underlying issues?”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

From my perspective, I have struggled with agoraphobia since I was 18, and I would not wish it on my worst enemy to live the way I do. Spending every day inside four walls and only having access to one or two people and the limits of their knowledge, it’s kind of like a prison to be honest. (And believe me I would know.)

Schools are amazing, you get to know and love so many different sorts of people, spending time with my teachers and learning from their vast array of experiences was probably the best thing I have ever done. I don’t understand why anyone would deny their child that and put them at risk of a life limiting anxiety disorder like agoraphobia. Just getting up, putting the uniform on and making it to school each day is so good for a child, it makes you feel like a completely different person to spend time outside of the home and become your own person.

I certainly don't think home education should have been allowed in this case, but it is life saving for some children, so I think the OP is unreasonable. Schools are unable to prevent bullying either through social media or in person, drug use, and other forms of abuse so taking the one safe option away from those affected would cause further harm. It is also imperative for some SEN children, who simply do not receive the necessary support at school. I think ensuring home educated children see relevant professionals such as a doctor or dentist, that they attend a group or activity, and complete personal learning reviews is all reasonable and would help to safeguard their well-being. However, it should be done sensitively and not in a way to make the child feel judged, or unsafe. This can be a difficult task for people who are neither trained educators, or welfare professionals, so perhaps staff would need training or further qualifications.

I think it's clear that Social Services, who were aware of issues for some time in this case, also need further training.

@BeardofHagrid

Schools are amazing, you get to know and love so many different sorts of people, spending time with my teachers and learning from their vast array of experiences was probably the best thing I have ever done. I don’t understand why anyone would deny their child that and put them at risk of a life limiting anxiety disorder like agoraphobia. Just getting up, putting the uniform on and making it to school each day is so good for a child, it makes you feel like a completely different person to spend time outside of the home and become your own person.

Well agoraphobia isn't the only anxiety disorder. Schools are also not amazing. They are filled with nasty bullies and both pupils and teachers are lacking understanding of disabilities.

My DD was a fucking shell of herself every morning when o was trying to coax her into school. She had thrived since I removed her, age 12.

You experience if an anxiety disorder and of school isn't the only one. School is great for some DC; but definitely not all.

This is a very rose tinted view of school.

Statistically most people with agoraphobia will have attended school, so it's a slightly weird take on home ed. Yet again, home educated children do not sit at home all day.

This is not everyone’s experience of school. My DD actively ran away from the school grounds/teachers due to feeling sick/unsafe in there. It isn’t the schools fault or our fault it’s just bad luck.

it is blinkered to think our one size fits all education system is going to be right fir every child. Ever likely some can’t attend.

There are so many assumptions on this thread.

When I was at school, we were beaten with leather straps and other implements by the teachers.
When my son was still at school, he was relentlessly bullied by one of the teachers, who was widely known to play favourites and pick on students (always boys). The school's anti-bullying policy was written by someone who never envisaged that bullying by a teacher could occur.
An acquaintance whose child attended the state secondary closest to us arrived home to find her son covered in bruises. It turned out that 14 other kids had ganged up on him and kicked the shit out of him. When the parents raised it with the senior leadership team, the SLT expressed the view that he kind of had it coming, as he was really annoying. The parents then involved the police.
The truth is that schools tolerate all kinds of behaviour that in an adult/office environment would have the offender sacked within hours and/or the police called.

I can’t say I particularly agree with HE, but that was never the issue here. The issue was inept social services! HE is being used as a distraction.

I home Schooled my youngest from 10-17. He had a death ideation at 7. No idea where it came from, no violence in the home etc. he was diagnosed with Asperger’s a year later.

at 10 he made his first suicide attempt. Wouldn’t leave his room. No interest in friends, gaming or anything.

he wouldn’t attend primary school and if I took him he’d run from the classroom and have to be pinned down by two male teachers as he would harm himself or run into the road on purpose.

id been begging gp’s, social services, home start, anything to do with families for help for years. We were in the waiting list for CAMHS support but they had no one to deal with someone so severe and unwilling to engage. It took me two years to get an appointment. 2 years of constant badgering, talking to MPs, quality care commission, clinical governance.. anyone. All that whilst having a family and home to manage, other children and a full time job to try and hold onto.

So I homeschooled for many years and they were fabulous. Looked at teachers resources in TES, adapted syllabus plans to make them fit real life skills. Bought study books and kits to do experiments with. Did MOOC courses, learnt about budgets and nutrition and meal planning and governance and society and communities. History and geography. Travelled. House sat around the UK.

but if I needed permission from someone.. you are having a laugh.

Our local county home Ed team didn’t have enough staff to visit each family annually. We couldn’t get any more support from external bodies.

Social services are overrun and can’t manage the actual reported neglect (as in the case in point).

the gp isn’t qualified to do psychiatric reports and whose paying for that - me?

you can’t get to see camhs often enough for regular reports for every child out of school.

hell - even children that are excluded from school can’t all access the education units as there simply aren’t enough of them and their needs can’t be met at them.

why are other communities being punished for another massive f’ing cockup by Social Services. The family had already had one child removed. They should never have been given custody of that little girl. Then when more worries were reported they should have removed her then. Then when she was deregistered from school - screaming red flags should have lit up their offices.

but no. It’s home schooling at fault. Home schooling is taking the fall for this.

it’s like me saying that Americans shouldn’t send kids to school because school turns kids into killers?

there is not enough budget (legislation or not) to create, set up, monitor, staff etc home schooling families. It is not feasible. And if we had a system it would be as broken and discordant at social services and not fit for purpose.

Turn the outrage to social services.

@TheCatterall Well said

My son doesn't have a school place and is supposed to be provided with education out of school by the LA. They provide nothing.

You do realise that schools are able to teach maths to all pupils right? They may teach the subject but there are many many children leaving school with little or poor level of math understanding. They don't all learn the way schools teach. And with the curriculum packed the way it is, a child doesn't grasp a math concept there is no time to recap or spend on making sure the child understands.

This is seen across all areas of the curriculum.

But a child getting 1-1 tutoring should do much better than a child being taught in a class of 30.
By age 19, 85.5% children have achieved 5 GCSEs or an equivalent qualification. 78% have achieved level 2 (GCSE or equivalent) in English and Maths by age 19.
So most children do leave school with a decent level of English and Maths.
A child who is being HE who does not have any difficulties that affect learning, should surpass this.

After spending 15 years in a classroom I would bloody hope that they would!
30% of kids at 16 though walk away with no GCSE pass, that's after 12 years of formal education. To me that's not acceptable but it reflects the failure of the 1 size fits all model. Are we really saying that after 12 years in school 30% of our 16 year olds haven't got a decent grasp of maths + English?

How about getting beaten up on a daily basis in the name of ‘inclusion’? That’s what my son put up with for 6 months at the start of high school before we had to start home educating. Not through choice. We had to move house to be able to afford it but my son had already started cutting himself quite badly at this stage and the school and the council had already washed their hands of any blame at this stage (Scotland, it’s happening everywhere here). So before we start banning home education, I suggest we ban criminally negligent governments who’s aim seems to be to physically and mentally harm young people.

Of course it's an imperfect system and kids are missed. But ask any teacher (or healthcare worker), we are all trained every year in depth to spot the signs of abuse and told how to report. Many of us have reported abuse. So kids that go to school are most definitely more protected than home schooled kids, that's just a fact. Not that one group is abused more than the other necessarily!!

I just feel that unless you're a trained teacher you should not be teaching children. How can you? Teaching is a skilled profession. I am not a teacher but I know how hard it is!

Done properly home education can get much better results than school education. Parents that do it because they want to (rather than because the system has let them down and dropped it on them) usually ensure they have a good social network for their children and one to one working means subjects and interests can be explored in the way the child learns best.

I home Ed my eldest two until they were middle school age at which
point I had a baby and toddler and knew I couldn’t give them the education they needed and they agreed to go to school. They never missed out educationally and were ahead on starting school and much more interested in learning than my younger two who went to school from reception.

Most well educated parents could do a decent job of educating their child 1:1. If they couldn't it wouldn't be much of an endorsement of our education system, would it.