Dissections in Y7

[Mepop]

My DD had to do a dissection in her Science class today. She’s Y7. She asked not to take part but got told she had no choice but to do it. She has been very upset and teary about it this evening. I’m vegetarian. I also have a biology degree and managed to obtain it doing zero dissections so struggle to see why a Y7 has no choice but to do one in Y7 in a state school, I am considering complaining to the school. But am I being unreasonable?

I'm a little confused.

Is the implication here that you can't be a vegetarian and a surgeon ?

Or that vegetarian surgeons don't need to practice before starting on living patients ?

Oh wind your neck in..... people like you and moany, whiny parents are one of the reasons why good teachers are leaving.

I'm a science technician and prep this for year 7s for the muscles and bones module. Our budget doesn't stretch to 1 wing between 2 so the teacher does a demo. Chicken wings are bought from Tesco as are the lamb hearts. No need for gloves as it's meat for human consumption and they just wash their hands after if they've had a go at moving the wing.

Students love it, it's not a compulsory element of KS3 curriculum but it's a fun demo and very visual way to see how the antagonistic muscles work.
Occasionally there is a snowflake student who doesn't want to watch, and teacher will say sit at the back of the lab or maybe stand outside.

Kids that get teary and upset over a Tesco bought chicken wing need to get a grip.....worse still is a parent who wants to complain about it.

Animal dissection in schools is not really comparable to medical training.
For starters, a significant number of UK medical schools no longer include dissection on the curriculum and computer simulation is an increasingly important part of both undergraduate and post grad training. If it is possible to learn anatomy sufficiently well to pass a medical degree without personally doing any dissection I find it extremely hard to believe that there's anything in KS3 Biology that genuinely requires it.
Then there's the fact that people who donate their bodies to medical science, whether that is for student dissection or research do so voluntarily and have died naturally. Consent must be freely given during the person's lifetime - nobody gets to make that decision for them, before or after death. Not quite the same for animals.
If someone objects to animals being bred and slaughtered for food purposes then it is entirely logical that they would also object to animals being bred and slaughtered for educational purposes particularly when the learning objectives can be achieved in different ways. And there are particular ethical issues around the poultry industry. I'm an omnivore but I wouldn't be particularly keen on my DC dissecting what, given school budgets, is probably the cheapest and hence lowest welfare chicken available, especially when the exercise is of questionable educational value anyway.
I think there are some education and research situations where the use of animals cannot currently be replaced but I doubt that any of them take place in school classrooms and I definitely don't think that pupils who object should be forced to participate.

Once Upon a Time,

in a land not so far from here, there lived a man named Dr. Harold “Herb” Greenleaf, a vegetarian surgeon who was as peculiar as he was compassionate. While other surgeons wielded scalpels with precision and confidence, Herb wielded only a pen, for his heart was too tender to cut into living creatures.

As a young man, Herb had made a promise to himself that he would never harm any living thing. This conviction began during medical school when the class was asked to dissect a frog. The moment the professor handed him a scalpel, Herb refused. “I can’t! and I won't” he declared boldly. The class gasped, and his professor, scratching his head in confusion, asked, “So, you’re going to be a surgeon but won’t dissect a frog?”

Herb, standing firm, nodded. “It’s my ethical choice,” he said, and though his classmates shook their heads, they admired his resolve. The professor, unsure of how to proceed, allowed Herb to take a different path, one that would shape his future in unexpected ways.

One day, in the midst of a simple appendectomy, he found himself standing over the patient, hands trembling, staring at the abdomen before him.

Years later, Herb became a surgeon, however, his unorthodox views remained. When it was time for his first appendectomy, he hesitated. "I can't do this," he said. "The appendix deserves rights!" The operating room was quiet except for the rhythmic beeping of machines. His assistant urged him in quiet whispers to proceed, but Herb refused, insisting, "We must respect the autonomy of all organs!" His assistant replied "This is an emergency, Dr. Greenleaf. We have to remove the appendix."Herb shook his head, his voice steady but resolute. I and the appendix deserve the right to choose!

With that, the surgery was passed on to another surgeon, and Herb retreated to his office to write long blog posts on ethical surgeries, pleading for a world where organs and surgeons have a voice.

His hospital, known for its commitment to diversity and inclusivity, allowed Herb to continue his work. They respected his views, even if they didn’t quite understand them. Over time, Herb became quite the sensation in the world of medical blogs.

And they all lived happily ever after 👑

The End.

Nope. Good teachers would have let the child opt out, like we are meant to.

Not all students love it. I have some every time that don’t want to do it. It won’t impact their grade and they’re far from ‘snowflakes’. As head of department, I wouldn’t accept your attitude. I want to encourage my students to love my subject. Your way of thinking is just intolerant and would put students off learning. If staff like you are leaving, good riddance.

I studied biology as part of my University degree and I got to dissect then. I wish we'd been allowed to do it at school, but we weren't! Very glad to see on recent secondary school tours that it's common now - not sure why my school didn't do it.

My Y7 DD was able to opt out of dissection recently. I did advise her to give it a go, and I'm also a vegetarian, but she didn't want to, I don't think anyone should be forced to.

I remember at my school in the 00s that 2 Muslim students didn’t participate on religious grounds.

I remember watching but I didn’t want to participate. When I did my biology degree we worked in pairs or groups so I wasn’t made to participate but I do remember doing one on a fish. Put me off fish for years with all the parasites in it.

Managed to pass my degree and get a masters. I still dislike touching raw meat even now. I can cook it but I always use cutlery to pick it up.

a significant number of UK medical schools no longer include dissection on the curriculum

Does that mean their first experience of dissection is when they perform surgery on an actual patient?

How is your dd feeling about it now? Did she know before the class that they were going to do it? Did she talk to you in advance, or only after?

Loved a good dissection at school and college!

It's a chicken wing OP, hardly the innards of a frog. No blood or organs.

I am all for free choice but this was educational and she should have tried her best rather than refuse before even trying. Why does you being a vegetarian have anything to do with it? Does your child eat chicken?

Heart dissections are the norm in year 7 at the school I work in! I think we’ve gone through around 100 hearts so far this year. Most find it fascinating, but those who really can’t cope usually are allowed to sit out/go to another lab. I would suggest if she has a dissection again to feign queasiness or say they feel faint, that normally gets the kids out of the dissection.

Dissection of animal parts is not mandatory at any stage in the secondary curriculum. An organ system dissection is required, and the heart is normally used. Done well it is normally a really informative and interesting activity. Students generally really enjoy it. However, I always make it very clear that it is not compulsory. Where it is part of an exam specifiction I offer a plant reproductive dissection as an alternative. I also make it clear that the children can withdraw from the practical if they find it upsetting or they feel uncomfortable. It's not unreasonable to offer a heart dissection but very unreasonable to make it compulsory.

We've been to several secondary open days. Three of the schools were showing hearts in the science labs. They had huge crowds of eager kids trying to see.

We nearly did eyeballs too... but then the teacher said we were not allowed in the end. We did no dissections at all in school. The closest we got was an ancient preserved toad that we could poke with a pencil.

As an adult, I did an Access to Nursing course, and we had a play with hearts from the supermarket, and sheep lungs from a butcher. A lot of people didn't take part, but they did watch others.

My Y7 has just done a chicken wing dissection (large state school, 300 kids in each year group!) to learn about bones and muscles. And my Y9 has dissected a fish this year. So there are definitely still schools that can afford all the specimens, even for Y7s.

Seems very strange. I did A level biology and didn't have to do dissection until then and even back then in 1998 my teacher checked if we were all ok doing it "before I order the rats", if anyone had not wanted to they wouldn't have been forced.
It's a lot for an 11 year old