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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DS upset at library removal of books

246 replies

Scallybatch · 13/12/2024 21:12

Went into my local library today with DS, only to be told they have removed all Tin Tin and Asterix books! He was really upset as these are his favourite books!. All the lady could tell me is that they had been told to as they upset some people. I'm baffled. Would I be unreasonable to complain?

OP posts:
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8
IcecreamWhatSandwich · 14/12/2024 16:15

Barbadossunset · 14/12/2024 16:10

Ah so in other words you know nothing about the book but have decided on zero evidence that what's objectionable about it is that Communists don't like the criticism of Stalin.

Icecreamwhatsandwich I haven’t ‘decided’ anything. I assumed that was the reason as I didn’t think there would be racial stereotyping in a book about the Soviet Union - though I could be wrong.
I would love to know why it’s considered problematic, especially given a pp’s post ‘Regarding the one set in the USSR I've never really understood what the problem was - or is. Yes the communist government is portrayed in an exceptionally poor light, but I'm far from convinced that Herge's narrative paints a false picture of the USSR as it was in 1930’.

Maybe you can tell me the reason why Tintin in the Soviet Union is inappropriate?

It is racist and antisemitic. Hope this helps.

You have made a number of extremely stupid statements about it, including that "Putin has probably complained about it". Please don't now pretend that you"haven't made your mind up". Not knowing what you are talking about and not having made your mind up are not the same thing.

Barbadossunset · 14/12/2024 16:16

It is racist and antisemitic. Hope this helps.

Thank you. Why didn’t you say this in the first place?

CurlewKate · 14/12/2024 16:28

You can't say "Merry Christmas" any more either.

MrsCarson · 14/12/2024 16:54

You could get hime. nice set for Christmas from eBay
I can't stand the book banning folk. Having lived in the US for a long time, my kids have read just about all the books they have tried to ban over the years.

MumWifeOther · 14/12/2024 18:11

NotVeryFunny · 14/12/2024 04:24

Doesn't mean they should be banned. I don't like book banning, reeks of authoritarianism and attempts to control minds/thought. If they were concerned they might upset some people a warning sticker would be more appropriate.

What race are you out of interest? If it’s not you depicted in a racist / stereotypical / derogatory way, then perhaps you should recognise that privilege and respect others’ feelings.

MumWifeOther · 14/12/2024 18:15

Also, it’s obvious who’s children haven’t been subjected to racism in 2024. All 3 of my kids have. My youngest was in year 1. Exposing your kids to this sort of subtle conditioning is selfish and ignorant. Just because you’re not directly offended or affected, there are consequences in allowing these sorts of stereotypes to continue.

MumWifeOther · 14/12/2024 18:19

Serencwtch · 14/12/2024 13:15

A library is a council funded public service whereas amazon isn't so yes they are different.

Freedom of choice to use racial stereotypes that cause offence at home = yes

Racial stereotypes that cause offence in a public library = no

You have to be seriously warped to know that the books contain racial stereotypes and cause offense and still be entitled enough to insist of buying them for use at home.

Its like deciding to buy your kid a gollywog as a doll for Christmas but not taking it out in public 🤮

CurlewKate · 14/12/2024 19:56

I remember my parents talking about the racial and national stereotyping in Tin Tin in the early 1970s.

steff13 · 14/12/2024 21:32

ChessorBuckaroo · 14/12/2024 00:29

Their book censorship is off the scale though. They have lists of the most frequently challenged books.

The Christian fundamentalist Mary Whitehouse was just one person here, they have entire groups made of Mary Whitehouses. Wackos had court cases in the 1980s where a record was played (one case concerned Ozzy Osbourne) as it had a "hidden message". As recent as 2021, Moms for "liberty", a censorship group in the white settler entity who want to maintain whitewashing of books (so no mention of Natives being dehumanised as "savages" in the white settler 'declaration', or the slave owning tyrants from the elite planter class who "founded" this white settler entity (jefferson, washington etc.). This censorship extends to any mention of gays, race, discrimination.

"Banned in Boston", a moniker for Boston which derived the Puritans, the most persecuting cult in the history of western civilisation, is another example of how religious fundamentalism seeks to control the thoughts and beliefs of people.

But books here aren't censored by the government. There are schools and places like that that remove books but it's not our government and it's not in every state. I live in Ohio and there are no books banned here.

ArtfulBee · 14/12/2024 22:05

steff13 · 14/12/2024 21:32

But books here aren't censored by the government. There are schools and places like that that remove books but it's not our government and it's not in every state. I live in Ohio and there are no books banned here.

Edited

Erm...several (right wing) US state governments have banned books in recent years, and similar legislation has been introduced (but is not yet law) in Ohio this year.

cardibach · 14/12/2024 22:24

MyLadyGreensleeves · 14/12/2024 13:57

@cardibach. Yes, there will always be those who are never able to figure out these things.

I would guess though that you quite happily shout "far right" while in the same fug of not understanding.

Probably best if you start with a reading of Animal Farm. It may still be on library shelves -the council chap may not have quite understood it to ban it-but if not, your local bookshop will have it and there are good guides available on line to help you understand it.

Don't be condescending. I’ve taught Animal Farm, never mind read it. I completely understand. I don’t know where you are seeing far left in this country.

cardibach · 14/12/2024 22:26

Dappy777 · 14/12/2024 15:09

Exactly. I have actually started buying up old books and putting them away. If there is a book you love, and you see a seondhand copy in a charity shop, buy it and put it in a drawer. Twenty years from now you might struggle to get hold of the original. It won't be long before activists demand that Jane Austen or George Eliot or Charlotte Bronte be removed from bookshops. Literally nothing would surprise me anymore. Think I'm exaggerating? Just wait and see. The attempts to have Roald Dahl's books re-written shook me to the core. I just can't believe someone could get away with that. It felt like they were testing the waters. You know, seeing what they could get away with before launching a major campaign.

Mark my words, the literary canon is the next target for these woke fanatics.

  1. Select a classic author
  2. Go through their best works
  3. Find something you can pretend to be shocked or disgusted by
  4. Scream and shout and do the whole fake outrage thing
  5. Demand the book be re-written and/or removed from the shelves
  6. Repeat

As for offence, what about the endless publications attacking my history and identity? I remember a few years ago an American guy published a book called Evil Empire: 101 Ways that England Ruined the World. It was full of distortions, cherry picked quotations and outright lies to make my country look as bad as possible. But hey, that's OK. Waterstones not only had it on their shelves, they had it piled up on a stand in the middle of the store to encourage people to buy it.

I'm 100% against ANY censorship. If you believe people should be free, then they should be free...not free only to express the same opinions as you.

utter paranoid nonsense.

ArtfulBee · 14/12/2024 22:42

Dappy777 · 14/12/2024 15:09

Exactly. I have actually started buying up old books and putting them away. If there is a book you love, and you see a seondhand copy in a charity shop, buy it and put it in a drawer. Twenty years from now you might struggle to get hold of the original. It won't be long before activists demand that Jane Austen or George Eliot or Charlotte Bronte be removed from bookshops. Literally nothing would surprise me anymore. Think I'm exaggerating? Just wait and see. The attempts to have Roald Dahl's books re-written shook me to the core. I just can't believe someone could get away with that. It felt like they were testing the waters. You know, seeing what they could get away with before launching a major campaign.

Mark my words, the literary canon is the next target for these woke fanatics.

  1. Select a classic author
  2. Go through their best works
  3. Find something you can pretend to be shocked or disgusted by
  4. Scream and shout and do the whole fake outrage thing
  5. Demand the book be re-written and/or removed from the shelves
  6. Repeat

As for offence, what about the endless publications attacking my history and identity? I remember a few years ago an American guy published a book called Evil Empire: 101 Ways that England Ruined the World. It was full of distortions, cherry picked quotations and outright lies to make my country look as bad as possible. But hey, that's OK. Waterstones not only had it on their shelves, they had it piled up on a stand in the middle of the store to encourage people to buy it.

I'm 100% against ANY censorship. If you believe people should be free, then they should be free...not free only to express the same opinions as you.

😂

A publisher decided to make some changes to a certain children's books, to keep them "child friendly" by modern sensibilities. The original versions are also still in print.

You're making an absolutely crazy leap.

TempestTost · 14/12/2024 22:46

I am not all that surprised by this, both of those series are now considered culturally insensitive to various groups by some people.

Which is too bad IMO but this is the kind of thing some libraries seem keen to get rid rather than seeing it as a censorship issue.

But, as someone who manages a library, absolutely you should complain. I can't count the number of times I have said to upper management that I didn't think the public liked a certain policy, but because there weren't really complaints as such I didn't really have much I could point to.

ArtfulBee · 14/12/2024 22:49

TempestTost · 14/12/2024 22:46

I am not all that surprised by this, both of those series are now considered culturally insensitive to various groups by some people.

Which is too bad IMO but this is the kind of thing some libraries seem keen to get rid rather than seeing it as a censorship issue.

But, as someone who manages a library, absolutely you should complain. I can't count the number of times I have said to upper management that I didn't think the public liked a certain policy, but because there weren't really complaints as such I didn't really have much I could point to.

You don't think that having them available for reserve, rather than leaving racially offensive material in the children's section, is reasonable?

Is there anything you believe would not be appropriate to stock, on shelves, in the children's section?

YourTurnForTheTree · 14/12/2024 22:57

Scallybatch · 14/12/2024 09:06

DS and I are off to the library....he wants to swap his books and hopefully the usual staff will be there to chat to.

OP what is your opinion on the racist caricatures that people have told you about on this thread?

Nikitaspearlearring · 14/12/2024 23:00

I am really saddened by this. We all loved Asterix when my kids were little. Loved the plays on words, like the Roman centurion Gluteus Maximus, and loads of others. I read the French version to help me learn French. The Black guy in the French version came out with these wise Latin sayings, like Oh tempora, oh mores! etc but yes, his looks were a bit of a piss take. So I can see why there's a problem. Maybe they could update them?

YourTurnForTheTree · 14/12/2024 23:01

CurlewKate · 14/12/2024 16:28

You can't say "Merry Christmas" any more either.

Really? What, everywhere? That isn’t the case where I am in London. I am sorry you are banned from saying it.

ArtfulBee · 14/12/2024 23:02

YourTurnForTheTree · 14/12/2024 23:01

Really? What, everywhere? That isn’t the case where I am in London. I am sorry you are banned from saying it.

I think you're failing to recognize sarcasm...

YourTurnForTheTree · 14/12/2024 23:04

cardibach · 14/12/2024 22:26

utter paranoid nonsense.

OT but I would love to see a Venn diagram of posters espousing paranoid views like that, and antivaxxers. I reckon the overlap would be huge ;-)

YourTurnForTheTree · 14/12/2024 23:05

ArtfulBee · 14/12/2024 23:02

I think you're failing to recognize sarcasm...

Maybe. I hope so.

TempestTost · 14/12/2024 23:06

Abookperson · 13/12/2024 21:55

I would like to highlight this comment as it is an accurate description of library processes.

No need to jump to the assumption of 'censorship'. The library profession is strongly anti-censorship.

I'm not sure I agree about the library profession being anti-censorship. They think they are, certainly.They love to promote Banned Book Clubs and Freedom to Read week.

But the profession as whole,or at least the public side, is quite extreme in terms of its political imbalance. Even in some cases to the point that you see organizations like the American Library Association explicitly becoming involved in a partisan political way.

But there are some very weird blind spots when it comes to things that offend their own political sensibilities, which a lot weirdly assume are somehow neutral.

What I see though is they don't try and "censor" the books like this directly. Instead they refuse to purchase, or weed them, on the grounds that they are unscientific or contain incorrect information or - ironically - are politically biased.

The weirdest one I ever saw was a librarian on Reddit saying he would not accept a donation of Bibles from someone - not because they didn't need them (which tends to be the case unless they are unusual) but because the individual had not also offered to give other religious texts "for balance". In truth, he was bigoted toward Christians, was the real reason.

That kind of thing goes under the radar though and can't be challenged ascensorship.

ArtfulBee · 14/12/2024 23:11

YourTurnForTheTree · 14/12/2024 23:05

Maybe. I hope so.

They are an frequent poster and it was definitely a joke.

TempestTost · 14/12/2024 23:12

ArtfulBee · 14/12/2024 22:49

You don't think that having them available for reserve, rather than leaving racially offensive material in the children's section, is reasonable?

Is there anything you believe would not be appropriate to stock, on shelves, in the children's section?

Edited

Yes, in some cases having books like that on reserve would make sense. But not the whole of Asterix or TinTin, it's not justified and I doubt their collection policy says they have to remove every part of the series because one is no longer in the open stacks.

YourTurnForTheTree · 14/12/2024 23:13

ArtfulBee · 14/12/2024 23:11

They are an frequent poster and it was definitely a joke.

Ah ok. I am afraid I don’t know the regular posters on here. Thanks.

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