DS upset at library removal of books

[Scallybatch]

Went into my local library today with DS, only to be told they have removed all Tin Tin and Asterix books! He was really upset as these are his favourite books!. All the lady could tell me is that they had been told to as they upset some people. I'm baffled. Would I be unreasonable to complain?

@ArtfulBee Tintin was published in the UK way before 1991.
It was serialised in the Eagle comic in the 1950s.

Most of the books, yes, but not "Tintin in America", because it was deemed too racist.

Perhaps I should have put the name in italics or quotes in my last post, I can see why it's confusing.

Edit: and actually, my bad, it was Tintin in the Congo, not Tintin in America.

@ArtfulBee oh that makes more sense 🙂

Oh Tin Tin is a favorite here. Honestly it is probably about Captain Haddock. hahahhaha So sad that classics are being destroyed.

I think it was kind of written for that time period. My kids and I were reading it and I was a bit taken back but we still read it and it started some conversations about what it meant. My 8yr old read it and it went over his head interestingly enough.

Is the Tintin movie approved?

Well, yes, but that specific time period and context was Belgium's colonization of the Congo, where they continued to commit crimes against humanity against the native populace up until the 1960s.

Doesn't mean they should be banned. I don't like book banning, reeks of authoritarianism and attempts to control minds/thought. If they were concerned they might upset some people a warning sticker would be more appropriate.

Thank you!! If we had to ban every book with racist, sexist, evil-stepmom, lazy person on dole, etc etc tropes, there would be no books left.
We're no dumb , we can make up our own minds, we are able to appreciate that different era's were fine with things that aren't fine ! Shall we ban all regency era romance books because the man is still asking the father for permission to marry?

They haven't been banned, though - a library has decided to remove them from its collection.

Should libraries be forced to stock them?

No they are removing them because of content (assuming what the op was told was correct) which is equivalent to banning. If they just didn’t gave room for them, or wanted to stick something else to mix it up or make a change that’s fine. It’s the reason that’s key here.

I do think "banned" is hyperbole.

That said, personally I'd have supported moving them into the adults section. I don't think that'd likely be necessary for all TinTin books but some are far worse than others. The aforementioned TinTin in the Congo is generally not stocked in children's sections of book stores and, since 2007, is legally required to have a warning label at the point of sale.

It was never made clear.they banned Judy Blume too.

Most libraries rotate their stock every 6-9 months as it refreshes stock for those who can only visit one particular library. Especially with audiobooks - CDs and Playaways https://www.playaway.com/our-products/playaway/all which are expensive.

Have you checked your council's libraries' catalogue? Just google your county library catalogue.

They do have some outdated racial stereotypes & it's important that libraries are for everyone.

I think it's right that libraries have taken them out. There are many, many other children's books to choose from.

If parents are happy with the content then they can purchase the books.

Can DC ask Santa for his favourite book?

It's true that those two first Tintin books are particularly bad, however there are racist stereotypes in many, many Tintin books. Some worse than others but most of them quite bad.

What did they do?

The people professing to be shocked by this, and associating it with totalitarianism, and saying that removing Tintin from the library will lead to "burning people", seen to be missing two important points:

1. For all of the history of books and libraries in the UK, there has been various forms of government censorship. Ulysses was banned. Lady Chatterley's Lover was banned. Several books criticizing the government and security services have been banned, eg Spycatcher. In the 1980s books mentioning or discussing homosexuality were effectively banned from schools. Why is it that none of this censorship led to "burning people", and yet removing racist comic books from being available to children in public libraries is apparently so dangerous?
2. If you might think "burning books will lead to burning people", wouldn't it also be fair to say "publishing books with dehumanising caricatures of people will lead to burning people"?? This seems to have been borne out both for the anti-semitic and racist anti-African stereotypes in the early Tintin books. Many of the people who lived in the culture where it was deemed acceptable to depict Jewish and Black people in this way, also seem to have gone along with the Holocaust in Europe and with colonial war crimes and genocide in Africa. This applies to Belgium itself but also to mid 20th century Europe in general. Dehumanising and racist cartoons have been associated with racist killings and other crimes in other contexts too. Why is the link to burning books (although no books have been burned, or even 'banned' here) more pertinent than the use of racist literature to justify racist crimes?

DS and I are off to the library....he wants to swap his books and hopefully the usual staff will be there to chat to.

Im not suggesting burning anything! It's not all the Asterix books, it's a few and the way black people have been depicted is not integral to the story at all. They could easily redraw a few frames in some books (or just alter a few features of the black person) and it wouldn't affect the story or anything overall. I think that's analogous to what they did for the Pogue's Fairytale of New York song. I also think one of the worst depictions for me in Asterix is in a book released in 1996 - that was not that long ago and I'm really surprised it was not changed before release.

There's levels to everything. A lot of things you look on and go ok things were different then and it can be a discussion and learning point. It depends on how offensive something is, the audience, perhaps how vulnerable or marginalised the group is, and where something is viewed. As an adult I can look at the books and think I like this story but that depiction is not ok. However, in a library any child (and often pre-teenage ages for Asterix) can choose that book.

There are two Tintins that are particularly problematic - Tintin in the Land of the Soviets and Tintin in the Congo.
It's true that those two first Tintin books are particularly bad

@IcecreamWhatSandwich i still don’t know why Tintin in the Land of the Soviets is meant to be so bad? Is it because people are worried that Stalin supporters might be upset?
The Soviet Union in 1930 had an appalling regime - I can’t see why criticism of it matters.

And for those who can't afford them, those who don't have the choice of purchasing, well they are in the power of some far left thought police little guy making the decision.

Money speaks once again, allowing those who have it to by pass the decision of the woke little guy who decided to withdraw the book. They have to live by that person's decision.

If you can buy your way out of this shite, you'll be fine-otherwise you'll be under the far left jackboot and have to comply with these fanatics.

It is nonsensical for those who say that they agree with the books being removed from libraries to say that those who want them should buy them. If they are so bad, why are they happy to suggest that people can buy them? Shouldn't they be arguing that they shouldn't be in bookshops either?

If you think it's ok to suggest that people can buy them, then why is it ok for those who can't afford to buy them to be penalised. does lack of money mean decisions have to be made for them?

Depressing how when two woke brain cells rub each other, they set off some sort of electrical fire that doesn't respond to reason. Still, the lunatics are running the asylum these days so we just have to get used to it.

Also, @Serencwtch You try to justify it by saying libraries should be for everybody before going on to suggest that if you want the book, buy it.

So, by accepting that these books will be in bookshops and offering that as a solution (!) are you saying that bookshops shouldn't be for everyone?

It must the race thing. I didn't read tintin but Asterix is fully of cultural stereotypes, they make nearly every nation look like arseholes somehow! But I guess it includes African and Middle Eastern characters that someone could call racist.

Back from the Library. Found two TinTins on the returned trolley so DS happy.

Spoke to one of the regular staff. They told me they have a new stock manager, who has taken them off, and the manager of the library apparently said this library had had complaints. They are going to be kept in "reserve" I think so I can still order them.

I guess they hope they will sit there, out of sight, never being issued until they can justify withdrawal