To be annoyed at being told to be considerate of disabled people

[DefendingPan]

This sign was in the disabled toilet in a restaurant (which is also the only baby change in the restaurant).

What’s the point of this sign? What might parents be doing that they will stop after reading this?

I think that’s a sad reflection on the woeful provision for all, to be honest. And that’s probably the take away from this thread. Each group have their own set of priorities and their own issues. The toileting needs of many disabled people will be very different to the needs of parents with children. And the erosion of the needs of all groups by planners not wanting spend money or skirting around legislation benefits no-one.

@Rosscameasdoody i did actually tell a member of staff that the disabled downstairs loo is disgusting - because it’s used by members in and out of the pool and so wet. There is a dry toilet but it’s upstairs. I told them I’d be very unhappy if I was disabled and that toilet was my only provision when using the gym floor,

We've locked horns on this thread but thank you for pointing this out to the staff. Realistically there is probably little they can do about it but the only way it will change is with pressure put on, and parents putting their weight behind it is helpful because they're a much bigger user group.

Maybe they just make it a RADAR lock?

That would have worked when the facilities were disabled-only and you had to buy a key from a registered provider, but now that they're accessibility ones, a market in keys has sprung up and you can now buy them on ebay or Amazon. I know parents who've done this so that they can guarantee access to baby change.

The more widespread use of radar keys has also become problematic for disabled users, in the sense that they allow people to override the lock that they've put on because they're using the facility.

The only real answer, honestly, is to remove baby change from the disabled toilet.

That's a shame about Radar keys.

I wonder if it would still reduce use by abled people though. I think many people are opportunists and will try an accessible loo if it's unlocked but won't go to the trouble of unlocking it.

I went to my gp today. There was a dedicated baby changing area, a feeding room (both no loo), a disabled, female and male toilet. All big enough for wheelchair or pushchair with grab rails. Happy days! I assume this is more common in healthcare settings though anyway.

As a parent and a physically disabled person YAB(slightly)U.

I say this with zero judgement - I think it could be useful to confront why this sign makes you angry? Does it make you feel like help is being taken away from you? Or that disabled people are being favoured in place of you?

Let me assure you new parents are treated with soooo much more patience and kindness than disabled people (on average). Theres a common misconception that disabled people get lots of freebies and favours (not true). People are quite rude/awkward with disabled people - i think its some sort of unconscious reaction / fear of their own mortality or something.

In an ideal world there would be care abd understanding for everyone but sadly not!

YANBU. Instead of a passive aggressive sign of contempt, it should have been something helpful like "please keep cord down" or "please close the table as disabled people might not be able to close it by themselves". Things a harassed parent might not think about. HELPFUL reminders as opposed to nastiness.

It shouldn't be about who needs more help than who. I think both groups need as much help as they can get, and sadly lacking in this society.

Yep. This. At one time Radar keys could only be obtained from the LA and a couple of specialist providers, and evidence of disability had to be provided to get one. I actually have one and there are two locked disabled facilities in our local shopping centre. On more than one occasion I’ve been using the loo when a key has been turned in the lock and someone has attempted to get in - many providers are fitting the locks the wrong way round so the bar that slides over to lock the door from the inside and show on the outside that it’s occupied, is overridden.

What this comes down to in the end is the watering down of legislation brought in to provide disabled people with legally enforceable concessions. Building services and planners are being allowed to circumvent it in many ways, so eventually it will be meaningless. Baby changing facilities should be removed from the disabled toilet and sited elsewhere - either in standard toilets if space alllows, or as stand alone facilities. And groups who feel they need access to wider/larger cubicles or other specialist facilities really should lobby for their own provision.

@afluffle Parents get more help than disabled people.

A poster upthread very patronisingly told me they were sorry I didn’t feel welcomed and valued in the world because I’m disabled. The sad fact is that disabled people generally aren’t. If they were, we wouldn’t need the Equality Act as a safeguard because the barriers to integration into society wouldn’t be there. Legislation enacted to allow wheelchair users into shops and other establishments would be enforced, employment law would be adhered to and there would be more disabled people in work, and fairly paid. Parents wouldn’t have to fight so hard for SEND children to be given a decent education. Families wouldn’t have to beg for help with children who have unmanageable behavioural problems. Motorists would actually be fined for parking across dropped kerbs intended for wheelchair access. Able bodied people perfectly capable of skipping into the supermarket in six inch heels wouldn’t be taking up a disabled parking spaces (yes I’ve actually seen it, and no, no blue badge). And disabled toilet would actually mean for the use of disabled people. I could go on, but the sad fact is that you can’t explain disability to anyone who hasn’t lived it, or lived alongside it.

And im ashamed to say I never understood what people from ethnic minority backgrounds meant by microaggressions until i became disabled. I thought i understood it but i just didnt and still never fully will. Its the same deal.

But able bodied people cant help ir. They could try more to be conscious of it for sure but in 90% of the time its just not thinking.

I have real problems with parents picking up kids from activities constantly using the disabled parking spaces to wait for their children. All so neither they or their children have to walk a bit further.

I think in this instance they should focus more energy on cleaning it. I don’t like to use it and tell the kids not to touch anything when we’re in there. The problem is dirty shoes on a wet surface make a wet, mucky mess.

If I just have one child with me I use the ladies (but swim lessons I take them both and so said the family change for containment mostly) but then I was criticised by a lady for taking my 5 year old in the ladies changing because she felt uncomfortable with a boy there whilst she was nude, which I said I understood and tbh hadn’t considered but now do going forward. She asked me why I didn’t use the disabled/family change and I said it’s not particularly clean - she did say she hadn’t realised that and sympathised with my reasoning. So I suppose the set up leaves both families and the disabled a little displaced.

Anyway, I digress and thank you for acknowledging my actions.

Re the shared disabled/parent and child spaces..

Carpark in question has turned some disabled spaces into shared use spaces. It still has (i assume) the recommended amount of disabled spaces, though they are now not the ones closest to the door that don't involve crossing the path of traffic.

But the signing is such that it does rather blur the lines and leads (the stupid or wantonly ignorant) people to think that all the disabled spaces are now shared, which has been the catalyst for numerous arguments. An issue too nuanced for the carpark company or council to grasp as when I complained they just said 'but there are still disabled spaces...'

And this is the issue wherever disabled people complain about shared use spaces... 'but we're meeting our legal requirement to supply the facility'... and our complaint goes in the bin.

If you don't mind me asking where, roughly, is this car park? Like which authority is it under?

If you can please do complain about it.

I'm just doing the school pick up now and the school have a tiny reserved car park for disabled use, but you've to get clearance to use it and it seems like you're ignored when you ask for clearance.

There are other disabled marked spots in the main car park, but the school don't enforce the use of blue badges for their usage and it means DS and I aren't able to ever get a spot. So frustrating.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead contact parking enforcement in your local authority. If you tell them the time to come to ticket those parking in blue badge spaces without a blue badge, they will usually come down and ticket everyone.

Sadly I think I might have to do this.

Given the benefit of the doubt too many times that perhaps there's a genuine need and lord knows I know how hard it is to get evidence for your blue badge entitlement and I would want all kids to be able to safely get to their cars but it's very clear that due to the lack of car park planning when the school was built, parents think they can just take the disabled bays if there's no other available parking spot.

Editing to add: the reality of people deciding these are multi use spaces when they're not is that DS drops to the floor when he's overwhelmed and dropped to the floor in the middle of the car park road with people revving their engines to try and get him out of the way faster but it just making him more upset. Yes obviously I picked him up but I can't carry him far due to my own disabilities. We've got home and just seen he must have bashed his head because he's got a right potato coming up so I am quite understandably cross.

A poster upthread very patronisingly told me they were sorry I didn’t feel welcomed and valued in the world because I’m disabled.

That was me and it was a genuine comment and not intended to be patronising. Having spent the a lot of the last decade devoting a great deal of time and care to a young person with significant needs I am genuinely sorry if your experiences have led you to forming that view.

I was fairly sure of my facts but have just checked with our local council and they’re saying no, car park operators absolutely cannot legally make disabled and parent and child spaces shared - a shared space will not count towards the overall legal requirement for the provision of blue badge spaces because it’s written into law that blue badge spaces are exclusively for the use of blue badge holders. It’s in breach of the Equality Act 2010, and would likely be seen as discriminatory.

Our local council has advised that wherever this is happening, it should be reported to the appropriate LA department covering car park operations. They’re saying that even private car parks, such as those provided for residential parking in flats, businesses, etc, are subject to the same laws I would also advocate that if you don’t get anywhere with your own LA, then you contact your MP and ask them to investigate the circumvention of strict rules regarding blue badge parking provision.

I used to live near a school and the way parents parked their cars was absolutely unbelievable. They'd park absolutely anywhere - on or across people's drives, across dropped kerbs, on grass verges, literally anywhere except the free parking 5 mins' walk away. I'd often leave the house to arguments they were having with homeowners whose drives they were blocking.

It absolutely does not surprise me that you're seeing them use disabled parking spots.

Incredibly selfish behaviour.

A word of advice - calling someone bitter is never going to go down well.

Government ‘guidelines recommend’ that 6% of parking should be in the form of disabled bays, unless the local council stipulates differently ( some areas of the UK have a higher or lower % need )
That 6% is an allocation for disabled people so not shared use.
Wonder if @WiddlinDiddlin your car park is within these guidelines or something different set by your local council.

See attached as well from British parking

Sounds like my road! Fortunately I am at the other end so miss the worst of the CFery but at the other end it's mad. I swear the parents only share one brain cell between them. I am sure they'd park in disabled bays if there were any.