To be annoyed at being told to be considerate of disabled people

[DefendingPan]

This sign was in the disabled toilet in a restaurant (which is also the only baby change in the restaurant).

What’s the point of this sign? What might parents be doing that they will stop after reading this?

@IVFmumoftwo
a lot of providers don’t like toilets in stand alone baby changing rooms because - - they don’t want to encourage people using them just as toilets
or they don’t want the extra cleaning hassle
or they don’t want to pay for the plumbing ( I know! )
or they just don’t realise what a pain it is for people needing both
or they are men who’ve never experienced the dilemma

speaking as a women architect who can’t even get male bosses to realise a sanitary bin can’t fit in next to a wc if it’s centrally spaced. I’ve had years of this nonsense.

@sloecat But it is impossible to do that. Take buses. We have buses that have a wheelchair space plus space for two buggies. Still there are parents who do not want to vacate the wheelchair space for the wheelchair user. I read parents locally saying that more seats should be removed to make more spaces. But during the day buses are mainly used by older people, some of whom can not manage stairs on a moving bus, they need the seats downstairs. How big do they expect buses to be!!

I’m not saying it is easy or straightforward.

Babies can easily be changed on your lap, theres nothing stopping an able bodied parent sitting on the loo and changing their child. There is also nothing stopping a parent choosing a sensible pushchair rather than a tank on wheels. If an able bodied parent can’t manage to change their own babies nappy without using the disabled toilet I’d be concerned about other basic tasks their brain can’t manage.

Why do people take signs like that personally?

There have clearly been complaints that some parents have not been as considerate of other peoples needs as they could have been.

If you are not one of them then the sign isn't directed at you so stop making it about you.

For a while the only baby changing rooms in the city centre was one in a shopping centre, in a disabled cubicle. It was locked with a radar key, with a sign saying to get the key, go to the office. That involved going the other side of the shopping centre, into the multistorey, up to the top floor and to the office in the far corner. And back again afterwards 😂

I changed baby in a corner instead.
If I'd come to town more I may well have bought a key for that specific loo to avoid a 10m traipse each way. That's different from just using it all radar loos because they are convenient.

As it happens, I now have a disabled child who I often use the disabled loos with (whether we need to use them depends on how she is, what w need the bathroom for, how big the regular cubicles are etc). I'm in the small minority that find combined ones useful because sometimes the table is useful, but she's too old to feel comfortable in the baby change.

I've taken my own changing mat and spare clothes so I can change wherever needed and can change the baby if required. This is so selfish, you'd make a disabled person wait and potentially soil themselves than change your child's clothes after an accident (which as a seasoned parent I'd assume you'd have).

You can buy travel changing mats too so surely that's an easier option for parents?

I have a hidden disability (a stoma) and I am also a parent. I am aware that sometimes I annoy people by taking a long time in the bathroom particularly if I have to change a nappy and empty my bag at the same time. I do everything I can to be as quick as possible, but usually manage to piss off both other disabled people and other parents because I look fine. While I am on maternity leave I am avoiding unnecessary trips out when my stoma is being active, but thats about all I can do

Fucking hell

I understand why joint facilities exist in small businesses. But the fact is they shouldn’t. And from next year new legislation will stop it wherever possible. Oh, and I understand a different perspective all right. Been disabled all my life and have watched as ignorant and entitled people have tried to shoehorn themselves into benefits and concessions meant for the genuinely disabled. I’ve been a disabilty outreach worker for many years and have seen disabled people subjected to disgusting treatment, for no other reason than disability. That’s what colours the outlook of disabled people. It’s not a ‘chip on the shoulder’ or anything else able bodied people like to explain it away with. It’s watching the constant erosion of the rights that we’ve fought long and hard for by entitled people who want it for themselves, whether they’re entitled or not.

A small baby and a wee, sure.
But you can change a poonami baby on your lap whilst sitting on the loo? Good for you. Most can't.

Equally, guess hows changing a 3 year olds pooey pull up going on your lap?

I've changed many a nappy on my lap. I've used the boot of the car, pushchair, the floor, all sorts. But in the above situations, no I couldn't have done it on my legs.

Also, I was pretty good at lap changing for my second baby, but not my first, especially when they were tiny.

20 minutes is ridiculous but what do you propose the parent does with a toddler when she needs to change a baby alone? It's the establishments fault for not providing separate toilets. I do avoid changing/disabled toilets when all possible as public toilets are usually pretty disgusting anyway but sometimes you have to use them.

I think some people are just desperate to be offended as often as possible, and then complain about it as loudly as possible!

It never occurred to me people would be feeding their babies in a toilet. I guess conventions vary by culture and local but here women breastfeed pretty much everywhere. I’d hate to think of my wife and baby having to hide in a grotty toilet!

If it is about putting the table back up they should have been way more specific!

KFC

Having read all the replies, are you still annoyed at being ‘told’ to show consideration for disabled people?

Just be considerate. It’s not hard.

You should have asked restaurant staff … rather than MN. They will tell you why the sign is there.

They do need changing but they can also easily wait 5 minutes for that to happen. A disabled person may not be able to. They should definitely have priority over a nappy change in my view.

I’ve always taken it to mean remember to not leave the bum-change flap down so it’s not a nuisance for wheelchair using folk.

However, I would much rather that changing facilities were not in that space. Poor planning on the part of most commercial premises unfortunately.

I'm dismayed at this thread.

A baby needing a nappy change, 'poonami' or not, does not trump a disabled persons access to their toilet.

And buying a radar key as a parent? Despicable behaviour.

The point that everyone seems to be choosing to miss is that the restaurant has chosen to put the changing table in the accessible toilet and then are passive aggressively berating parents for using the facilities provided. Provide better facilities.

I've complained about this sign before, was a KFC I think, one of those brand new purpose built buildings in which they've actively decided that people with a disability aren't worth their own facility.

And buying a radar key as a parent? Despicable behaviour.

Disabled people have children as well. If you mean that they are buying the key, with no disability, just to use the disabled facility, then of course it is not on. The problem is, there is nothing anybody can do about it. There is no proof required to purchase a key.

Don't be happy at parents being berated, be angry at the business who haven't deemed you or them important enough for your own facilities. The business has decided it's ok for you to wait.