UK employers' attitude to sickness is Victorian & tired of office 'martyrs'

[Startingagainandagain]

Reflecting on this as we are in the flu season.

Why do so many people will go in the office when they are so obviously unwell and risk infecting everyone else?

Why do employers seem to think that if someone is off sick they are automatically fibbing?

I have had flu symptoms all week (awful muscle pains, headaches, sore throat, constant sneezing...). I have a long term health condition and have to be careful not to mix too many pain killers with my regular meds. So I had to stay home to recover and after 3 days of rest I still feel rotten. My employer seems to be pissed off that I dared taking som time off...

I have people in my team who 'perform' martyrdom on a constant basis when it comes to illness: someone who broke several bones insisting they were working from their hospital bed (which is impossible & unsafe considering how much pain meds they give you in this situation and how drowsy they make you...), another who also assured our manager they were working while sitting in A&E with their sick partner. We also have regular instances where someone comes in with covid or similar contagious disease and then causes the rest of the team to catch it and go off sick which is totally counterproductive...

Basically I am puzzled that employers seem to think that people should never get sick and that so many employees go along with the charade.

Would it not be more sensible and healthier to have a more pragmatic view to illness at work?

And don't get me started on disability: if like me you have a long term health condition/disabilty your card is marked as soon as you declare it on end up needed time off when you have a flare up.

Why is the UK workplace like this?

Am I being unreasonable to think there is a better way to deal with illness and disability at work?

I only get SSP so unless I'm dying I tend to turn up - I can't afford not to !

I’m a teacher. You feel expected to drag yourself in, and actually it’s often easier to do that than set five lessons of cover at 6am when you feel terrible, or deal with the aftermath of classes being covered. So there are often teachers coughing and snorting all over the place. I miss working in an office where you could work from home or go in but keep yourself to yourself if you were feeling a bit rough, and had easy access to toilets when needed.

Students are told they have to come in unless they have a temperature or are actually being sick. So they come in coughing, sneezing etc. You literally see the illnesses spread through classes.

I had covid really badly earlier this year and chest infections that took ages to shake, thanks to the constant circulation of germs and the fact you don’t get a proper break to recover.

I have a long term health condition and have to be careful not to mix too many pain killers with my regular meds. So I had to stay home to recover and after 3 days of rest I still feel rotten. My employer seems to be pissed off that I dared taking som time off...

Its not usual for healthy adults to get so ill that they need 3 days off work. The only time ive been so ill as to need that was the first time I got covid.

In nearly twenties years working i've only ever needed an odd day here and there and thats despite having young children.

Are you making sure you get all your vaccines?

YANBU - but - it’s interesting how many people have been off at our place in the run up to Xmas. Some are genuinely ill but some are definitely skiving! There’s a pattern too - always a Monday or Friday. Interesting, that…

Well, the Victorians did build an empire.

I was in this position last year, having always previously got sick pay it was a rude awakening when I only got SSP. It meant most of the staff body were ill for about 3 months in winter because none of us could afford to be off. Ultimately I left that job for some l where with better sick pay, but not everyone will be able to do that. I do think SSP kicking in after three days is pretty shite.

Depends where you work. That’s not the attitude of my employer. Even if it is, if you’re sick you should take time off.

I've worked in countries where the culture is that if you have a cold you stay at home - you don't go spreading it around workplaces/schools/public transport.

Funnily enough, people have far, far fewer colds - I can't imagine why...

YANBU

We used to (have since moved to largely remote across the company) get a flag up after 3 incidents of illness within a certain period. Cannot remember if it was 12 or 18 months, and we would have to have a meeting with our manager. Then we were not allowed to be off sick again for another 4 months or it would flag again and you would then require a meeting with HR and your manager. If it happened again within another 4 months you could then get a disciplinary.

So, really, things like that are why some people martyr themselves when they shouldn't be coming in.

Not sure it's just UK, I've worked in 2 other countries and it's exactly the same there!

Honestly I think just as many people call in sick when they aren't sick or come into work with a mild cold and resentfully drag themselves around all day in the hope of being sent home as try to work when they are genuinely unwell.

If you are properly sick, be an adult and call in sick or work from home. Don't expect other people to be happy about it, it is just what you have to do. If you have a mild cold, my feeling is you can work - on Mumsnet this is often viewed as martyrdom, but as humans we are constantly fighting off mild infections. This is normal, and staying home with every sniffle is not possible nor desirable.

How much sick time do you take on average OP?

Would that be the money that pays your wages? Or does that grow on magic money trees?

Because if I even take an hour off sick I loose my attendance bonus. its worth 500e at Xmas so believe me I am not risking it. we are lucky our manager allows us to use time in lieu or work from home to ensure we don't loose it. it's ridiculous

Agree. It's absolute nonsense. I'm a manager and my company insists we do a return to work interview and form for every single instance of sickness. This can be even if it's just one day and the person hasn't taken off sick before.
All it does is make people stressed and feel like they're not appreciated when they do put in 100%. We have a massive problem with staff retention. Who'd have thought?

No, that'd be the money that goes to CEO bonuses and shareholder profits.
It's also completely self-defeating. Someone feeling obliged to work with covid simply infects everyone else and more people have to take off sick.

I've had loads of time off, probably 8 occasions in the past 12 months
I only ring in sick when I really can't work and due to a health condition on those days I was either out of it on morphine or in so much pain I couldn't speak

Are you hard of thinking @PerditaLaChien ?

the bit you have quoted literally starts with “I have a long term health condition” so perhaps the PP isn’t a completely healthy adult?

FFS

Yanbu. Someone I work with got a final warning because she went home with covid.......she honestly looked like a ghost and was clearly unwell. Best bit is the area manager was there and csaw for herself how ill she looked.

IMO especially if you're working with the public it's not a good look having staff who look like the walking dead and could be passing on illnesses to people who have compromised immune systems.

I have a colleague who is a self proclaimed 'workaholic'. She always comes into the office coughing and spluttering, last week she finally had one day off sick but then came in the next day and passed all her germs around (to me included.) She wouldn't stop banging on about how she has never taken a sick day before and couldn't believe she finally did as if she's some sort of superhero. Drives me up the wall, we are lucky we get full sick pay and we can work from home... Just why?!?!

To be honest I was with you at first. But your turned into what you are criticising - someone who leaps to negative conclusions about others.

I am severly disabled - never had a problem with my employers on this.

I had major surgery twice, on mega-painkillers and GA and managed to do work from my hospital bed (and was happy to do so - no martyrdom involved and no pressure from the employer).

If I were in your team and you accused me of "performance martyrdom" (a) there would be a grievance slapped in within hours and (b) hell would freeze over before I ever went out of my way for you again.

So yes, I agree that people shouldn't be in work if they are too ill to work, and if they are ill but not too ill to work then employers should be flexible where possible. But in the end the main reason people go to work when ill is because they cannot afford to be off work; they don't feel that they are that ill; they don't like to impose an absence on their colleagues.

Yes, but look how they treated the vulnerable. Chronically ill people would have been in the workhouse or on the streets. Not really an ethos to aspire to.

Its not usual for healthy adults to get so ill that they need 3 days off work

Hence the use of the phrase: “long term health condition”, I would imagine.

I think your title should read ‘some’ UK employers. We have seen from the replies that not all think like that. You are a manager, tell your employees to take their filthy germs home.
Also, as a manager, use your position to influence HR policies on the matter. Since Covid, I have heard of several local employers revising their thinking - one person can quickly become many , and if work is needed, perhaps it can be from home.

Obviously, none of what I said works for those paid by the hour who don’t get sick pay. And that’s the bit that needs to be looked at.

I worked in a place where you had to have an official meeting with HR if you were off for even one day.

Most people dragged themselves in.

It wasn't worth the hassle of taking time off. You had to fill in a form stating why you'd taken time off as well.