17 year old, in education, and part-time job

[SparklingBalls]

Long story short, my 17 year old is in Y12 6th form and has taken up a part-time job a couple of months ago. We very much encouraged this as they are financing a long trip abroad through school that way, for which they needed to fundraise (we are absolutely not in a position to contribute hugely to this).

However, they've gone from a point where they were stressing about school work every night (3 work-heavy A-levels) to apparently barely working on that anymore, while simultaneously working all the school-free hours under the sun.

They are working at least 4 days a week, usually evening shifts of 5-8 hours, and are rarely home before 9am anymore, often walking home for half an hour in the dark (due to buses not running). Working hours are ridiculous, for example, shifts this week have included working until 10pm Friday night and then working again at 8am the Saturday morning. All for minimum wage for a 17 year old. They've also been put on shifts Christmas Eve, Boxing Day and New Year's Eve and Day and appear to be on late 8-hour shifts almost every day of the school holidays.

Every time I have raised concerns over the hours (or told them they're working far too much, or got upset that suddenly we have no family time anymore whatsoever, or raised concerns over school) I've been met with "well, they just put me on these shifts even if I say I want an early one". My child is either unwilling (more likely) or unable to put their foot down and say no.

Grades in two of the subjects have not yet suffered, apparently (they still get As, or so they say), and the third one is coursework-based, so harder to judge on whether it is affected, but I know from experience that sixth formers barely get communication home regardless of their work and effort.

Where do I stand here? How much say do I really still have with a 17 year old who doesn't listen about work (we initially agreed to 3 days max a week - that lasted exactly one week), but just takes on any shift, and is barely home apart from late at night, who is tired around that all the time (no surprise) and where it is hard to gauge how much school is affected? Am I right to be worried about burnout? Do I just need to let them make their own mistakes and watch it all crash down in a few months?

I thought there was a government limit how many hours a child under 18 in education can work?

From everywhere I've looked it seems that the limit is 40 hours, regardless of the fact the child is still in education.
But work also don't adhere to the rest breaks of 12 hours between shifts. Not sure how to handle that without losing the job altogether, though?

I don't know where in the UK you are but here in Scotland there are very strict rules about how many hours a day/week under 18s in education can work. Your DS's employer is breaking the law and this might be a starting point to try make him see he's working too much.

I would speak to school and also gently encourage them to find a different job. Burnout is a real possibility as is losing grades.

We're in England.

Our school used to recommend 8-12 hours term time maximum.

Is this a job in hospitality where this is the busiest time of year but it will drop right off after Christmas? Your daughter should have a 12 hour break between shifts and as far as I am aware should not work past 10pm . 9 pm is not really a late night so could you not pick her up to avoid the walk home if no public transport?

When I worked in a supermarket, college kids liked the 5-10pm twilight shift.

Yes, it's hospitality, but the place is busy all year-round, it's part of a larger attraction.
I cannot pick up due to a small child at home who will be in bed (single parent; the "we" upthread refers to ExH, who doesn't value education and therefore doesn't care if grades are affected).

I would have a discussion about predicted grades for university and that if those grades aren't achieved then it will limit the university options. Also try to find out how predicted grades are derived. Some mainly look at exam results, others will place an emphasis on even the early class tests.

Teacher here!

One of my Y12s is the same but he is NOT an A grade student. He has gone from Cs to Us in his homework, and unless he revises for his mock in January then he will fail.

I've told him he needs to prioritise school work over job but he likes the money.

Have you spoken to the school/college? They can talk to your child.

Otherwise just let them fail and then they'll need to prioritise what's important. Life lesson!

My sister's teen was in the same situation, working more and more studying less and less. Also saving for a school trip actually, and for uni. Parents have to be very careful with money, but have had to make a deal with Teen that they work less and parents will find a way to contribute more to trip/teen mustn't work more than x hours a week. This Teen is not one to take instruction from their parents so I was pleased to hear studies took over again.

I wonder if there's a possibility of helping your teen get a more lucrative job over summer holidays that makes up for lost hours? Me and DP are gonna try get my sisters teen into a low but much better paid position at DP's work for summers.

In England the child work permit rules are set by the local council but usually only apply until age 16, it was not changed when compulsory education until 18 happened because that would have made apprenticeship difficult

Is your child planning to go to university? If not personally I wouldn't worry, they are getting a good start with work experience for getting a job when they leave school. If they are I'd keep it under review for now and see how things are at Feb half term

You need to check whether it's "they have been put on shifts for.." or "they have volunteered to work on..". If they're chasing the cash it could easily be the latter, and a short-staffed hospitality business will leap on volunteers offering to work shifts they're short.

If this is how they're expected to fund the trip, you can't really blame them for earning as much as possible as quickly as possible.

As a student, in my final years I had 3 days/week of study and worked 3 days/week in retail. It just about burned me out, and my studies definitely suffered.

Businesses can put a lot of pressure on young workers.

My SIL worked a lot of jobs like that when she was young and they regularlarly paid less than minimum wage and put pressure on her to fill shifts.

At the end of the day the business doesn't care about your child's a level grades.

If the boss is saying "oh I'm so worried I have no one for the shift on Saturday" then it takes quite a strong person to walk away and say nothing.

Has anyone here ever worked retail/min wage hospitality??

The kid has to take shifts given, else no job. You don't get a choice working those jobs. You do what you're told even if its unreasonable, against the law, you do it and keep quiet else you don't have a job.

Theres no "putting foot down" or "not volunteering for other shifts". Volunteering is not volunteering in those jobs - you have to do it if youre told or "asked", or no job for you. If you "put your foot down", no job. They make it very clear.

Only way out of this is the kid finding another job that doesn't do this, which will be difficult as pretty much all jobs that allow 17 year old will do it.

I don’t know how schoolwork could not suffer with that schedule. My Y13 has 6 hours of lessons for each subject and they are expected to do around the same amount of homework/independent study. Most of them have jobs but school suggest no more than 6 hours a week. 4 x 5-8 hour shifts plus weekends is pretty much a full time job. He has one contracted 5 hour shift as a lifeguard and then is part of a bank of staff to take extra shifts but there doesn’t seem to be undue pressure to take them.
What is the plan after A levels? How much is the trip and how much per week does YP need to earn to finance it? Working, getting life experience and earning are all great but it sounds like the balance is way off here.

Personally I think it’s crazy that some parents encourage DC doing three difficult A levels to work in addition to that.

We’ve always taken the view that sixth form is (or should be) a full time job in itself and DC’s priority should be school work and ensuring they get enough exercise, sleep, socialising and down time.

Imo any DC who is working more than a few hours will end up with poorer grades unless they are a genius.

I'd chat with him - very nicely. I'd say that I was massively impressed by his work ethic and it shows he will be really successful later on, but the A levels must now come first because they will set him up for higher paying skilled work longer term. Ask about his plans and dreams - the old 'where would you like to be in 5 years time?' cliche can work with teens as they realise that to get there, they may need to shift their priorities.

Then I'd say he has to hand in his notice after Christmas and not work at all until exams are over.

Discuss your ex helping to fund his school trip and you helping too. Ask school if there are any discretionary bursaries if you can't help him pay for the trip, and tell them you are worried that his schoolwork will suffer if he keeps up this level of paid work. Or he could borrow from you and work over the following summer to pay you back?

Ask to look over his course based A level with him and check it is on target. Some of these (Art, Drama) are very time-consuming and will eat into revision schedules.

I saw A levels as a full time job and ensured DC had a quiet work space, healthy food and checked in on what they were studying regularly by asking them to tell me about it or asking what they were struggling with and looking for solutions.

I feel the only solution is finding a nicer job now he has a reference and some experience. But I have no idea how realistic that is for him.

I used to be at college Monday to Friday and work 16 hours at the weekend for 3 years. No one I knew did that not even my brother.

Dc’s school had a recommended max hours a week think it was 10 ish?
I’d check with school and speak to dc. Their predictions for uni are often based on yr 12 mocks and some dc find to their shock they can’t apply for uni courses they want.
It also sounds like they need some support with employer. They are young. Mine did zero hours contract but was put on shifts. There was a mechanism to swap shifts and we encouraged her to book leave, speak to manager etc.
I do think having a small job at sixth form is good for them. Anecdotally all the top achieving kids at dc’s state grammar who went on to top universities or competitive degree apprenticeships worked but not lots of hours. Mine used to do one or two short shifts a week. Her mate was a junior football ref sat am, another a lifeguard.

My dd is similar. We have agreed with her max 15 hrs a week during term time. Slightly easier as we know her employer. It's hard for young ones to say no to supervisors whose job it is to fill the rota.

My 17 yr old works at McDonald’s while doing A levels.
The pay is pretty good - £80ish a shift which adds up when you've no bills to pay, but it’s on a motorway so has to be driven there and collected which is probably why it pays well! They are not allowed to do night shifts till their over 18.
I’d encourage looking for a better job OP.