17 year old, in education, and part-time job

[SparklingBalls]

Long story short, my 17 year old is in Y12 6th form and has taken up a part-time job a couple of months ago. We very much encouraged this as they are financing a long trip abroad through school that way, for which they needed to fundraise (we are absolutely not in a position to contribute hugely to this).

However, they've gone from a point where they were stressing about school work every night (3 work-heavy A-levels) to apparently barely working on that anymore, while simultaneously working all the school-free hours under the sun.

They are working at least 4 days a week, usually evening shifts of 5-8 hours, and are rarely home before 9am anymore, often walking home for half an hour in the dark (due to buses not running). Working hours are ridiculous, for example, shifts this week have included working until 10pm Friday night and then working again at 8am the Saturday morning. All for minimum wage for a 17 year old. They've also been put on shifts Christmas Eve, Boxing Day and New Year's Eve and Day and appear to be on late 8-hour shifts almost every day of the school holidays.

Every time I have raised concerns over the hours (or told them they're working far too much, or got upset that suddenly we have no family time anymore whatsoever, or raised concerns over school) I've been met with "well, they just put me on these shifts even if I say I want an early one". My child is either unwilling (more likely) or unable to put their foot down and say no.

Grades in two of the subjects have not yet suffered, apparently (they still get As, or so they say), and the third one is coursework-based, so harder to judge on whether it is affected, but I know from experience that sixth formers barely get communication home regardless of their work and effort.

Where do I stand here? How much say do I really still have with a 17 year old who doesn't listen about work (we initially agreed to 3 days max a week - that lasted exactly one week), but just takes on any shift, and is barely home apart from late at night, who is tired around that all the time (no surprise) and where it is hard to gauge how much school is affected? Am I right to be worried about burnout? Do I just need to let them make their own mistakes and watch it all crash down in a few months?

Is this just a recent thing (i.e. in the run up to Christmas)? If so, might their hours go back to "normal" in January (I know my DS worked a lot of extra shifts just before Christmas when he was in sixth form because he saw it as the last chance to get a lot of money in before he knuckled down to more serious work.

I think retail particularly does ask young people to take on a lot of extra shifts and it's hard for them to say "no". But ultimately they have to, or if it really is impacting on their work and they feel they can't, accept that the job is not for them.

The thing you have to balance is that for the first time your daughter has money of her own in her pocket with complete control of it. She naturally wants more. Plus she may well find it hard to say no.

You need to sit her down over Christmas and discuss her future. Where she wants to go in life. If it's hospitality then she can get qualifications in that. If something else point out it's not going to happen when she isn't studying.

Speak to the school and ask them to intervene.

Crazy? Really? DC's school suggested that an A Level student should be looking at 4 taught hours a week and 4-6 hours of independent study. That's 30 hours a week, allows for plenty of time for working in the evening/weekend (e.g. my DD working 8 hours a week split across 3 evenings) without it being unduly arduous.

Working provides so many positive benefits for a young person.

If you're taking 4 A Levels and an EPQ and also involved in a lot of music/drama/sport then I accept it might be "crazy". Actually a lot of serious sports/music/drama people spend a lot more time doing their activity then many sixth formers spend working

What would the school be able to do? They can't dictate what students do outside of achool

They can’t dictate but a senior tutor could show them the school advice not to work more than x hours and point out working more can adversely affect grades. They can also explain what predictions are based on.

Is it a retail job, if so the hours will probably be much better after Christmas.

I always preferred working to studying as I was earning money (and I was very academically able). It's not a bad trait to have. You might find they want to get a job after sixth form rather than more study- it doesn't suitable everyone.

I did the same thing when I was doing my A Levels. The money in my hand was too tempting for me to turn down, it became more important than my studies (and I didn't even save any of it). I ended up with CCC instead of the AAB I was predicted and one of those C's was a miracle, I was sure I wouldn't pass it.

Also, the management put terrible pressure on you to do it, so that didn't help. The honestly only thing that would've stopped me would've been if my mum agreed to match the money I would've made if I turned down a shift (which of course she didn't). Nothing else would've convinced me not to do it. Sorry OP.

When I worked in education the general advice was that working more than about 8 hours per week would negatively impact on A levels. No idea why you would agree to 3 days!

I did ask the OP if uni was being considered but she hasn't posted since then, a tutor speaking to my children would have had no effect as they didn't want to go to university and being able to demonstrate a good work ethic was as important for post school life as A level grades

DD’s school were very clear that pupils should not do more than 8 hours a week in a job, as it would have a detrimental effect on their studies. I think your son is doing far too many hours and maybe he is worried about how to say No to his employer in case he loses his job. I think you should step in and either, help him say No to so many shifts or, help him find another job if possible. It’s hard for them to navigate their way sometimes as they’re young.

Think restrictions are only under 16. Some unis suggest max 20 hours pw termtime.

I had this with my two. Their employers just wanted more and more hours off them. But as your DC is in hospitality it will quieten down after Christmas. I tried to encourage my two to focus on their studies but it's so difficult.

It's very hard juggling studies and working. I managed it by babysitting at that age.

Thank you all for your input; I have been at work since my last post, so haven't had a chance to reply yet (ironic, I know).

This is a food type place attached to a visitor attraction (like a cafe or small restaurant attached to a popular museum, or in a theme park), so hours will never really quiet down even after Christmas.

I teach sixth form myself, so I already have had the same conversations that any school-based tutor would have, with the same anecdotes. My child has high aspirations - much higher than I think is reasonable - and wants to go to one of the top universities in the country in an expensive city. All cautious thoughts from my side are batted away (these range from required grades to financing accommodation and student life) and I get told I am not supportive enough. My child is predicted AAB for their chosen subjects, but all three are some of the work-heaviest out there, and of course if they don't put the hours in, success is unlikely. I used to work throughout sixth form, too, but only 2 days a week bar work and an hour tutoring a week on top of that, then school the rest of the time.

The workplace my child is in uses an opt-out system, which only allows for days off, but not the choice of which shift, or the number of hours. Since hours aren't guaranteed no one wants to make themselves unavailable more than strictly necessary, as they may not be booked all the days they have showing as available, if that makes sense. Apparently work have been arsey with staff (let's face it, almost all youngsters) not being freely available the whole day on the days they have availability, so the kids are scared to put a foot wrong lest they don't have a job to go back to.

My child has been looking for a part-time job for a few months, so is worried about finding another job. And ExH and I absolutely cannot help more with this trip than we are through monetary Christmas and birthday gifts. The large deposit (almost £1000) is non-refundable, we've already helped towards another £2000 and the rest of the money (another £2500) is due in a few months. It's one of those "help out in Africa" trips I know are not popular on here, but it's a once-in-a-lifetime experience that will hopefully help with university and job applications later.

Depending on trip are there any charities or grants they may be eligible for. There are some random ones (our local authority struggles to give away a travel grant left for 16-25 yr olds in ft education from a certain geographic area it’s worth up to £3000 from monies left in a trust)

My DD is Y13 also doing three work heavy subjects and she’s had a part time job since the end of Y11. In Y12 she had lots of free time and also picked up loads of hours, and didn’t struggle to keep up with work, she worked loads to save up as she knew she would be dropping back on hours in Y13. She will be asking for study leave from her job from April until after exams, she does have an added bonus of working in a place that opens at 9 and closes at 6 and directly linked to her chosen Uni course.

in all honesty all you can do is give your child information and support to make informed decisions. IF they choose not to follow your advice and isn’t successful then he will have learned a hard lesson but one he very much has to learn. I’d start by asking about their plan for Y13 and managing their workload, if a plan hasn’t been made then one needs to be made ASAP. They may also need to have a discussion with their employer with regards to exam season coming up, they will have Mocks soon and some of those may not be in their usual timetabled sessions and could clash with work.

Balancing work and education will be seen as a positive to Universities as most students will have to work to supplement their loans. So don’t discourage them from working just encourage prioritising and balancing their education.

@SparklingBalls it’s also worth writing letters appealing for funds to organisations like the Rotary Club, the Lions, and there is a directory of charitable organisations which make grants and donations, so your young person could go to that and see which might cover what they’re doing. Also any local companies who like to sponsor young talent, or to put something feelgood and worthy in their newsletters/social media feeds. It doesn’t all have to come from work. Then maybe a school team to do things like sponsored swim, sit in a bath of cold baked beans, whatever. And individual sponsored events too, tap up relatives and neighbours.

I hope it all works out as your YP hopes. Best wishes!