To think DD class should be allowed Christmas decs and music for the last week of term?

[EstherAlma]

DD is in year 4 at a CoE school and this term a girl joined who is a Jehovah's Witness.

The children usually have some decorations up in the classroom and as a treat they listen to Christmas songs whilst working the last week of term. This is happening in the other year 4 class and throughout the rest of the school - however DD's teacher has said because of the new girl's religion they can't do it this year.

DD said if anyone mentions Christmas to the girl she goes red and starts crying. She accidentally got taken to an assembly and was very upset. I'm not sure anyone has thought this through and I really feel sorry for the girl.

AIBU to think that this isn't fair on the other children in the class? I could understand if it was a secular school and also you can't walk into any shop in England right now without hearing a bit of jingle bells!!?

Hopefully I can withdraw her from those bits until she’s a bit older and able to understand and make up her mind - as above - hoping to flexi and part of that will be active exposure to a wide variety of religions but obviously can’t go every week in the same way and I worry the would present a biased view (our nearest sikh temple for example is over an hour away)

I went to school in the states (separation of church and state ) and still managed to get in daily trouble for refusing to say the pledge of allegiance since I do nothing ‘ under god’ and certainly don’t pledge allegiance to any government that has the death penalty and doesn’t have universal healthcare

IMBc we felt this way when our eldest started. Dh felt it passionately we opted for a community non religious school. Still had elements of religion in it though. It’s a battle that can’t be won frankly. Don’t withdraw your child she will hate that. Just teach her your beliefs at home. Ours are both coming to the end of school neither the slightest bit religious nor are any of their friends with atheist parents.

It is surprising the controls some parents feel they can demand of a teacher. According to a Mormon family they wanted me not to teach evolution. In Y4. I said it wasn't part of the curriculum but if it came up from the children I would teach what I know to be true. And the Exclusive Brethren wanted their children to be excluded from IT lessons. I said they had to be included, they would be in a mixed group at a computer, but I wouldn't monitor that they actually put their hands on the keyboard.
The Mormons wanted the whole class deprived in order for their child to be spared the horrors of evolution, but the EBs were quite happy for the rest of the class to be exposed to Satan. JWs never a problem to anyone else.

I can’t believe I just read that. You don’t want your children to learn to respect other people’s religion? That’s something I’m very glad mine learned, actually promoting intolerance and disrespect in children is appalling.

I don't know if you have deliberately misunderstood or if you actually did not understand my point.

Siams is not about converting anyone. It is about sharing Christian values like respect, love, morals, making good decisions, good behaviour, sharing, and lots of shared values of faith and non faith in a Christian environment. This also includes how you include others and celebrate and share their faiths and cultures.

JWs do not require anyone to change what they do and this decision is the school's decision based on a desire to not offend anyone without the teacher talking about the issue in my view

There are shops, buses, and even local supermarkets with decorations and Christmas promotions. A JW would buy what they needed regardless of garlands and music playing. After Christmas if the chocolate were reduced you would buy them. It is the celebrating of Christmas they avoid but you can't avoid seeing, hearing and smelling Christmas.

We have JWs who go on the Christmas trip to the Safari park and Panto but don't do certain parts which are discussed beforehand. They wouldn't do the Santa present part usually but would never dream of saying others should not.

We do Christmas cards, Easter cards and change the name based on the child.
Many Muslims do not celebrate Christmas or birthdays either.
We had complaints about Father's Day cards for those who don't have fathers so the card is given to anyone you love. You adapt according to your cohort.
I would not have Christmas music playing in lessons because we have children where any music might be a distraction or exclude them. If you are having a Christmas party at the end of term this would be a more appropriate time to play Christmas music,

You said

It's a big deal in that it's teaching those children to be accepting of JW as a religion to be respected. Which is not something I would want my own children to learn.

It’s not exactly difficult to understand, is it? You don’t want your children to learn respect for a particular religion. Or at least that’s what you said.

Yes I agree. Poor child eh?

It’s not exactly difficult to understand, is it? You don’t want your children to learn respect for a particular religion. Or at least that’s what you said.

It is up to you if you want to teach your children that religions such as JW, FLDS and Scientology are akin to Buddhism or Judaism.

That's not something I would want to do or have my children believe. I'd rather that they were aware that some people use religion to manipulate others and that just because someone has a belief then you don't have to fall in line with that.

I don't think that because someone believes that their child needs to be sheltered from everything 'worldly' then everyone else should have to participate in that, Even though my life would be easier if I didn't have to do three nativities next week.

My best friend is a former member of the Plymouth Brethren. She was brought up to believe that the will and wants of men were upmost. That's a religion that I don't want my children to believe should be tolerated.

YANBU . My son attends an all boys Catholic school. For the last four years they have not done a nativity play in case it upsets other religions in the school. This is on top of these other kids telling the boys that Santa isn't real and your parents buy your presents. The school does however make allowances around Ramadan, have halal meat in the lunches and celebrate Eid. Go figure 🤔

So the girl wasn't there for the last day of term and they got to listen to Christmas songs

Or you could just leave her to be with her classmates. No one is brainwashed by a C of E school 😂😂

This is rubbish. In my experience the children of Jehovah's Witness parents remove them from school for the last 2 weeks of term. If not, they don't take part in nativity plays etc. But classes still have decorations up. All this is bollocks because children of other faiths all take part in Christmas activities, and I feel sorry for the children whose parents won't allow it.

Yeah, sure. And what exactly have you, and the other parents done about it?

DD said if anyone mentions Christmas to the girl she goes red and starts crying. She accidentally got taken to an assembly and was very upset. I'm not sure anyone has thought this through and I really feel sorry for the girl.

Why are non of the staff seeing this as a potential safeguarding concern?

This isn't normal. It suggests real fear. A child of that age can only feel that if told to do so by family.

It screams psychological abuse.

As others say, how does she cope in the rest of the world at this time of year? This means no going to the shops (all supermarkets) not leaving the house in case she sees Christmas lights or trees in the window.

I'd be calling social services tbh.

I’m planning on flexi-school for a variety of reasons - but thankfully it does allow me the opportunity to explore lots of religions.

saying that - I do have several friends who have said their children have come out talking about God and heaven because they are talked about as absolute rather than ‘ this is something that I personally believe in’

Question?
What is this child likely to have been told will be the repercussions of being around any of these things?

For this child to be crying they must be really quite worried.

Quite sad. As pp I have been to many Christmas tree lightings and Christmas events in ME, some even had nativity displays. Usually it's just santa and fun. And yes, they had signs "Christmas" not "holidays". Decs everywhere.

This is not Muslims overall. I think it's either cultural (so differs on where they come from) or just mix of intolerance by few and extreme tolerance verging on pandering to unreasonable by many. If that makes sense.

Excluded from IT?
good luck getting a job 🤣

There's a fair number of Breathen near where I live. I've been more familiar with them than I ever care to wish for...

They own their own businesses and employ within their community. They will get jobs just fine. They are a very strange bunch who don't mix much with outside communities.

I used at a brethren company. They reluctantly used fax machines and for long after most others had stopped using them. They did have email out of necessity. But the internet? We had it but absolutely everything was locked down except the barest minimum necessary for the company to function. You couldn't just Google anything.

I also know a couple who have a very odd experience when they did a job for the brethren. The guy told his wife not to leave him alone because he was being sexually harassed by a number of the women. Ironically this doesn't really surprise me. The men within the community are awful sexist pigs and it's difficult to leave. They are generally married off young.

We think of communities like this as American but nope, they are still alive and well in the UK.

I tend to view the Brethren as a cult, from my experience with them.

Does sound pretty cultish!

Yes I can imagine I mean who would have been able to receive the faxes after a while!

I would imagine it would only get harder as time goes on and less and less is possible without the internet like banking etc. Do they tend to home school for older teens?

I wonder what Christmas songs were used in the other classes. One year, our Y4, three classes, was condemned by the non-religious* year leader to perform entirely secular stuff in the concert, 'Santa Claus is coming to town', and something by Slade, I recall. Couldn't budge her into the much better music from the carol books. I think I would go barmy if I had to play that sort of thing through the day, and would welcome any excuse not to have them.
*non-religious does not mean atheist or agnostic. Thought had not entered into her position