To think DD class should be allowed Christmas decs and music for the last week of term?

[EstherAlma]

DD is in year 4 at a CoE school and this term a girl joined who is a Jehovah's Witness.

The children usually have some decorations up in the classroom and as a treat they listen to Christmas songs whilst working the last week of term. This is happening in the other year 4 class and throughout the rest of the school - however DD's teacher has said because of the new girl's religion they can't do it this year.

DD said if anyone mentions Christmas to the girl she goes red and starts crying. She accidentally got taken to an assembly and was very upset. I'm not sure anyone has thought this through and I really feel sorry for the girl.

AIBU to think that this isn't fair on the other children in the class? I could understand if it was a secular school and also you can't walk into any shop in England right now without hearing a bit of jingle bells!!?

They couldn't do that these days with attendance targets and term time fines (even though it makes sense).

DD has since said that girls from Dance club are annoyed as they couldn't do a 'Christmas routine' because of her.

I think the girl is at risk of being ostracised.

They could definitely take her out for the last week of term as it's private.

It's a big deal in that it's teaching those children to be accepting of JW as a religion to be respected. Which is not something I would want my own children to learn.

I can’t believe I just read that. You don’t want your children to learn to respect other people’s religion? That’s something I’m very glad mine learned, actually promoting intolerance and disrespect in children is appalling.

‘ JWs consider Christmas Satanic and dangerous. Rooted in pagan rites etc.‘

well, they are wrong ! Although the drinking and guzzling bit is more a secular tradition. I’m amazed that A Church of England school would go along with this (although actually I’m not given Welby’s stated attitude towards his congregation and the Church constitution).

They’re not wrong. Many elements of Christmas have pagan roots.

When I was lunchtime staff years and years ago, there was a JW child in "my" class. Christmas celebrations went on as normal and he was taken to do other activities (at the request of his parents). He wasn't even allowed to have Christmas cookies they'd baked or do anything remotely festive in terms of crafts.

The upshot of this was a deeply unhappy child who was segregated from his peers and who became tearful and violent. It was deeply upsetting and I felt very sorry for him. He punched me in the stomach one day because he wasn't allowed to go to class carols. I have often wondered what became of him. A very unhappy adult now I suspect. Fortunately I've never seen anything like this since. I think it's wrong that the whole class has to go without in circumstances like this. It's grim.

@IMBCRound2 I think even secular schools in England and wales are supposed to instill Christian values (which is a good thing taken at face value IMO, charity, love thy neighbour etc).

Mine go/ went to a large secular school in Birmingham so plenty of faiths (and none) and they go to church once a term and the vicar sometimes gives talks in assembly.

Despite not being religious, I like them knowing a bit about different religions. The school also have an Iftar and mark Eid as well as Diwali.

I wouldn’t worry too much. I’m athiest, I’d call my kids non-religious as they don’t care one way or the other. Not only was their school some kind of religion (I don’t remember which) it had its own chapel. I was a bit concerned at first but it really had no impact at all.

I've reported this thread as I think some of the posts it's encouraging is disgusting and if the same was being said about a major religion this would not be tolerated. The fact someone happily will come on here and say they don't want their kids taught to respect JWs, is vile, whatever your belief.

Oh Christmas tree oh Christmas tree you really came from Germany- horrible histories

But seriously horrible histories has a brilliant episode on the history of Christmas!

They’d probably be fined for unauthorised attendance now. I mean that’s ridiculous. Did they not enter any shops from about November onwards either!

JWs don't want their own schools, they see school as the 'territory' the child has to 'witness' to.

She will be getting a lot of praise for her class not having decorations and the dance group not doing a Christmas routine.

Yeah that's wrong of the school (although in general if I were a teacher I would not want to hear Xmas songs all day long!!!)

The teacher should let the JW child chose a hour or so of non Xmas songs so they are included though, that would be fair all around.

Fwiw I think it's rubbish not letting your kid join in (I exchange cards with friends of different religions for e.g. hanukkah because it's nice to celebrate things your friends like. I remember at school I had a couple of JW friends and would secretly ask them if they wanted a Christmas card which they would enjoy for the afternoon then have to throw away, )

So, from how I understand it, you can withdraw your DC from religious activities at the school but Christian values are very much the foundation of the school. They are checked to hold onto their CofE status I believe. Ours has collective worship each week with the village reverend, visit the church regularly, lots of focus on Christian celebrations throughout the year, lots of focus on God in slogans around the school, traditional hyms sung during assembly. Calming places have names such as 'the rainbow room' and 'the ark'. Very similar to a traditional english school upbringing in our childhoods I would say. From what DS says, DC still make up their own mind and there are lots of non believers. DCs of other religions attend and the children are taught about other religions in RE.

I am surprised at this. I work in a very multi cultural secondary school. About half my form group are Muslim for example. The school still has Christmas decs up. We also put up decorations for other religious festivals. I love celebrating everything!!

As PP, I think there’s more going on here, not just that the child is a JW.
We have just returned from Vietnam, a Buddhist country, the Christmas decorations in shops, restaurants and hotels put us to shame here in the UK. Christmas music everywhere, drove me mad!

I really want her to have equal and wide exposure to world religions- hoping to flexi her which means I can take her to different places of worship. BUT and this is a big but I want to make sure it’s grounded in a socio-political reality - so much of religion is lovely on paper (community, sense of purpose, values) but in practice are literally horrific (genocide, deprivation of women’s health, trans and homophobia). To add to the mix, she’s donor conceived to a solo mum (with a DC sibling on the way!) and many major religions are not supportive of donor conceived people. I really don’t want her to struggle with her identity as a result of being indoctrinated into a belief system that doesn’t fully support her identity (and that’s without the possibility she may end up exploring her gender identity or being in a same sex relationship further down the line- and we have many friends who are trans/gay/lesbian/gender non-conforming and she adores them and may not understand at a young age why those beliefs arent compatible)

I wonder if the child's parents have been asked about this, and if they realise the impact this decision is having on the rest of the class?

I currently have JW twins in my class (Year 3, C of E school) and after chatting with mum, she was happy for them to take part in most things (with only minor adaptations/tweaking needed). Eg They made 'Winter' cards and 'Festive decorations'. They attend assemblies, but don't join in with prayers at the end. They stay in for all RE lessons, as we always deliver these in a 'Christians/Hindus/Muslims etc believe'. They don't celebrate their own birthdays, but they are always invited to parties and do go - they even brought in a gift and card for me when it was my birthday.

This said, even if in this case the family are not as open to this much inclusivity, I don't think that this teacher/school is dealing with this in the right way. As a parent I might ask for a chat with the head teacher about this. It's very unfair for just one class to miss out on the traditional festivities at this time, if the rest of the school are experiencing them.

Unbelievable.

yes i think this thread is unbelieveable!!

So all the other parents feel the same? just write a letter of complaint to the head signed by all the parents and forward it to your local authority.

That's ridiculous of COURSE they should have Christmas decorations. Just because this new girls parents are idiots the whole class shouldn't suffer

Someone here is talking bollocks, whether it's the OP or her daughter.

Schools do not ban Christmas because one child is a Jehovah's Witness and nobody whose child cries at any mention of anything non-JW sends their child to a CofE school.

There were kids at my CofE school who didn't attend assemblies with Christian prayers, but they still took part in Christmas activities, decorations etc.

But Buddhism is a tolerant religion so it's not comparable.