we all agree on the need for more houses but just not here !!

[billysboy]

As title really , everyone seems to agree on the need for more houses regardless of type but doesnt want them here ,
Green belt is supposed to ring fence existing settlements , I like the idea mooted this morning about Wild Belts to encourage wildlife etc ,
I cannot see how this government or any other hopes to build there way out of a crisis where in a lot of places it seems to be 10 x income to get a foot on the ladder
Ultimately it would seem lower house prices would be good for everyone apart from those in negative equity or using housing as an investment rather than a place to call home and the only way to achieve this is to oversupply the market causing prices to remain static whilst wages / income catch up
I thinks its unreasonable how long planning can take on a small domestic extension let alone 300k + house s needed per annum so cannot see how Angela Raynor thinks she will achieve this

No easy answer on this one

Hopefully you are learning something new from this thread about a topic you don’t understand the basics of.

The other issue is almost half of every marriage failing and families splitting up, needing two homes. I don't have the stats but imagine that's contributing quite a bit.

I really hate the destruction of nature that comes with this.

Same

If you're worried about migration, don't. In 20 years we'll be desperate for it.

Tbf in 20 years the work landscape will likely be very different. Due to tech and AI

It needs to be remembered that Labours target of 1.5m houses, is exactly the same as the Conservatives, both parties seem to see housing as a way to make it looks like the economy is "growing"

I don't know what Reforms housing targets are but if the main parties don't wake up on immigration, which is the main reason we "need" all these houses - then expect to have an awful lot more Reform MPs.

IF the work landscape really will be v different, what is going to happen to all the millions of migrants that are coming here, they, unlike EU migrants, wont be going back to their country of origin.

They can have all the targets they like and they can impose housing quotas on councils, but the facts are that we don't have the skilled labour to build these houses, margins in house building are very very tight, construction companies are businesses who want to make profit.

Labour are now talking about having to bring in labour to build. More people who'll need housing and can we guarantee their skills?

Many trades are well paid, why aren't more young people taking up training? Unless we improve our workforce these problems aren't going away.

Oh, please

Only recently Starmer has announced that we need to get a grip on immigration, and has criticised the tories for their open door policy.

Its not immigration as such that is bad, but a million new people a year is just not sustainable, especially in these hard times.

They probably are but then the companies don't want to pay decent wages and they can pay under the counter to people who aren't in the system

I'm sure this happened with the Eastern Europeans in the 00s and then we were fed this lie that we didn't have enough skilled people and so it goes on and on

Probably because everyone is so stressed out having to both work and use childcare and pay for expensive housing that shouldn't be

The fact is that training people is expensive, it's much cheaper to ship in ready trained people from abroad. Many employers have been doing this for years, including the NHS.

Many tradesmen are self-employed and are just not able to take on a full time apprentice. My hairdresser was saying her salon cannot make the time to train apprentices that they can't afford to employ. We recently had a lot of work done on our house and the only trainee (a young woman!) was with the electrician, and worked for quite a big company.

We need to put investment into training colleges who can do the basics, and who will work with tradesmen who will provide in work experience. It will be money well spent.

And it's all quite a temporary problem - between birth rate declines and climate change, many properties will be flooded or standing empty in 50 years.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem now but there is no long term strategy which is wh there will be another thread like this in 50 years.

It may be temporary, but it's a huge, growing, problem for young adults. They're just not going to sit idly by being told to put up with it by people who have houses. We need actual solutions for now.

It is a growing problem but building more housing isn't the solution. Building houses requires staff, all of whom need skills and healthcare, none of which is currently satisfactory.

Everyone wants "enough" housing until reality bites and the realise the have a 400k mortgage on a 10 year-old house, when the same house in a brand new condition 30 seconds down the road is for sale for 200k and they realise they can never retire or move and that they will be working their whole life to pay off negative equity and will be permanently in a worse cost of living crisis than the next generation. There will be no inheritance to tax and with high salaries and low cost of homes, people will think "why pay a fortune to go to uni and train for a stressful job when I can work minimum wage and still buy a nice house?"

I agree that more building isn't the only solution. But telling younger people to put up and shut up isn't either. It's going to lead to increasing division.
We need to use existing stock better - incentivise downsizing, improve public transport, clamp down on Airbnb's etc.
Everyone wants "enough" housing because they want somewhere pleasant to live.

I agree with the above Building is not the only solution , however the house price ratio to earnings is nuts at 10x in some areas

Selling off council house stock without replacing seems to be part of the reason for the relentless rise in this ratio

As I said earlier there is no easy solution and no one thing that would cure it all

Training people is expensive but is a better alternative to importing cheap labour in the longer term
All of the eastern european labour that has previously flooded the market has kept wages lower for the trades in construction , which is great for the consumer until they all go home and we then find we havent trained any of our youngsters because they all look down their nose at building / fruit picking / nursing etc
I run a small building company with 25% of my staff trainees / apprentices

In our little part of surrey, they want to build on parts of the green belt. It's a relatively small amount of green belt land, but the locals are up in arms.

The town centre is, at best, average, Mostly 2 story buildings and the converted offices etc abouve the high street are largely empty.... and yet, whenever a developer comes along and suggests changing things by knocking down existing or building higher than 2 stories.... OUTRAGE all round.

They want it the same as it was 50 years ago, even though it's a different world now and those buildings are ugly, falling apart, empty and not contributing any meaningful value.

One development that was built about 10 years ago around here is, in my opinion, a great example of what can be done. It was open space, the new development is a mix of larger family homes, smaller family homes and apartments The overall estate has plenty of geen and open spaces, playgrounds for children (which feel safe) etc.

Infrastructure is a concern but our council has significantly increased the number of school places locally for both primary and secondary. I can still, largely, get appointments at our GP so I asume we have a decent NHS infrastructure - and I personally know 2 people who have been on 2 week plans for cancer and who massively benefited as a result. Roads ARE a problem and if we can't get on top of the appalling public transport, this will only get worse.

We don't need more houses. It's abhorrent to be using up more and more countryside.

Absolutely nail on the head. 2 homes per family because its so easy to separate now is a huge problem.

Or make it less easy to have big families on benefits? Or reduce immigration? Or reduce divorce rates so extra houses aren't needed?

Looking back we did used to have social housing before that was sold off and never replaced. I think it’s possible to blame Labour for Thatchers Right to Buy policy which means we have so few council houses, or as they call them today, affordable housing. Over the years we simply haven’t replaced that housing. I know, its all Rayners fault, maybe she will apologise soon ?

Here in the North there are lots of skilled jobs that pay…….minimum wage. It simply doesn’t matter if you are skilled or not, it’s all about paying you as little as they can for as long as they can. School staff, “apprentice” teaching staff, childcare staff that fully qualified and have 30 years experience all get minimum wage. Asda is a high paying employer here. Northern Powerhouse anyone ? Laughable

Perhaps what we really need are the workhouses back ? Sell all of the council houses that they live in and invest that money into the South East, where the vast majority of investment goes nowadays. 14 years of Tories were a mere step away from the workhouse. Perhaps getting rid of the minimum wage to make poor people “work harder” ?

Yes, a utopia indeed. All of those houses in the North that have no well paying jobs and no investment can be used much better.

I expect it’s all Labours fault, Starmer saying there’s no such thing as society. Yes, I blame Labour

Or make it less easy to have big families on benefits? Or reduce immigration? Or reduce divorce rates so extra houses aren't needed?

Well given the steep rise in abortion rates since 2017, and the significant drop in UK birth rate the two child cap is doing something to limit family sizes.

I’d love to know how you’d reduce the divorce rate? Make people stay in unhappy or abusive marriages/relationships? That’s going to help women and children.

Which leaves immigration - as always. How then will you plug the gaps in academia, health and social care and unskilled labour. Folk here don’t want to do these jobs and we’re having children at slower rates than ever.

I’d vote for this 👍