People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

Appreciate the honesty :)

The thing is - most people who severely overeat, binge etc for emotional reasons or psychological reasons are not eating because they’re hungry. They’re not hungry. So appetite suppressants shouldn’t really work because hunger isn’t why people are over eating. So how is this drug really working. People can be so traumatised and turning to food that they’re literally eating to the point of being sick then eating more so it has noting to do with suppressing a physical appetite surely? There has to be more to these drugs than the fact that they cause digestion to slow down. They must work on a part of the brain or on a signal sent to the brain that has nothing to do with hunger? There has to be more to it and I wish they’d research this because there is where the answer lies I think.

Totally agree.

What are they cheating at? Makes zero sense!

anything that can reduce one’s weight and therefore chances of disease later in life is only a good thing.

Because nobody is naturally slim, keeping your weight down or losing weight is hard. Weight creeps on very easily but to lose it you need to have a huge calorie deficit and then to stay slim you have to keep your calories down for life, it’s just that simple, if you are overweight but can’t get your weight down, your calorie deficit is not big enough.

If anyone goes into hospital, is unwell and can’t eat or are not being served the amount of calories they had before, they lose weight, every time, it is as simple as if you eat too many calories you gain weight, if you eat less calories and are in deficit, then you lose weight, but everyone who is overweight, apart from a couple of medical conditions like thyroid issues, are eating more calories than they need so they don’t lose weight, it’s simple science.

I don’t care about anyone using these injections, but it gets so defensive on here if you argue against the cult of weight loss injections that it’s ridiculous.

It’s the made up excuses that get slimmer peoples backs up or those that have to keep calories in check or can not eat as much for the rest of their lives. Food noise is a major one, what on earth even is food noise. Il tell you what it is, its cravings, everyone has them and you have to ignore them, eat sensibly and just deal with it. Food noise has been made up as an excuse for over eating.

Another is ‘I fed both my children the same growing up and one is fat and one is like a whippet’, those kids do not eat the same amount of calories, the heavier one at some point has eaten more or is not burning them into deficit.

I actually don’t like faux concern, yeah all drugs have side effects, also I’m all for medication, it’s scientific advancement and I think if you want to use these injections then go for it, but stop pretending that being overweight isn’t because you are simply eating too many calories. Admit that’s why, there’s no other scientific basis for your being fat, have the injections and stop getting defensive and looking for other excuses.

Apart from thyroid issues, which also get medicated, being overweight for the majority of people is because they eat too much or have at some point eaten too much and so the calorie deficit to lose it then increases. Admit these injections are to suppress your appetite for over consumption and get on with it. Anyone with the faux concern please stay in your lane and the rest who know that they have to be in calorie deficit to lose weight can keep up with that, I lost mine because I got very ill and could barely eat, 4 stone for me, and that was it, my over consumption stoped, I was in a huge calorie deficit and lost weight, simple science. Now I know for life I have to keep that calorie consumption down!

I think it's the feeling that they had to work hard for something while others can just take a jab. A feeling that it's unfair.

Same reason people sometimes resent people on benefits, especially people who are just over the limit to be able to claim anything.

Those that thinking it's "cheating" should have a good think about their values.

Should someone depressed stay depressed because taking an antidepressant is cheating?

I've seen people criticise ready meals even when they're totally unprocessed and have nothing bad added to them like bagged salad. I think they think eating healthily look always be hard work.

They don’t need to research it, it is common knowledge , it works in two receptors, one telling the brain it’s full and two slowing digestion, so you physically feel full. The third is it ensures efficient insulin production and usages and stabilises blood sugar

No Research is needed, this is what the drugs were developed to do. It’s literally what they do.

Who is responsible for an individual being obese?

They are not cheating

They are lifesaving

Alot people have food noise. Where the brain keeps sending the stomach signals that it's time to eat. For some it never stops. The brain gets a dopamine hit when food is eaten and hence programmes the brain with the constant food noise.

How do people get food noise.
Lots of different reasons
Could be childhood trauma and food was comfort
Could be bullying as adult
Could be hormones
Could be medication
Could be pms

The weightloss jabs reduce the food noise. Which can ultimately combat diabetes, infertility, arthritis, etc.

The injections work on regulating hormones. If you've experienced powerful cravings or aversions in pregnancy, that's a demonstration of how powerful hormones can be in driving you to eat or stopping you from eating certain things. They aren't the same hormones so I'm not saying it's the same process, but I think it's helpful to think about it like that. The injections are not simple appetite suppressants but I think the media presents them that way as it's easier to understand. They are doing more than just controlling hunger. They do take away the urge to binge, which is a lot more complex than simple hunger as you say.

And don't worry, they are the focus of intense research right now as they're making a fortune for pharmaceutical companies who definitely want to continue to develop and extend the technology, which may have uses beyond weight loss.

But with traditional weight loss methods you’re still not necessarily addressing the underlying issues.

Do you tell people not to go to WW or slimming world because they might put the weight back on? No?

I have a friend who lost loads of weight on one of those diets that includes a coach and therapy etc. Guess what, she put it all back on over the years.

And to the PP with underactive thyroid spouting eat less and move more bullshit, do you even understand how your own condition affects a huge proportion of those who suffer from it? FFS that’s literally the definition of thyroid disease - your metabolism doesn’t work as normal.

It's the desire to eat. There just isn't any whatsoever (for me at least!) whilst taking this drug. The temptation to binge, the emotional links to food, they all just disappear so in that respect I did find it incredible.
GLP1 medications most definitely work on the brain. I never understood what the term 'food noise' meant until I started this drug but now I 100% understand it because it just vanished within 12 hours of my first jab and it was so freeing!
It is honestly the one feature I wish I could retain without the need to take the medication itself.

Il tell you what it is, its cravings, everyone has them and you have to ignore them, eat sensibly and just deal with it

That’s like saying that when you feel cold you just need to go out for a run and that will warm you up. Instead of putting on a jumper or standing next to a radiator!

I always say I'd easily be slim if someone made all the choices for me and put the food in front of me.

The endless choices and drain of planning, shopping, cooking (for a fussy husband and kids) leads to poor choices for me. Which I'm trying to address - WLI is helping with that to some degree.

I was off WLI for about a month while being investigated for other health concerns, and the hunger did return. Fortunately my time on WLI had taught me a lot about portion control and recognising when I'm full - I gained 100g in that time.

Unhealthy snacking was still a problem. For me it has always been out of sight out of mind. When I lived alone I did not have all the crap food in the house - I was much slimmer. Can't blame it all on the family though, my calorie needs have decreased significantly as I've aged and I didn't adjust my diet accordingly.

Back on WLI now and I don't much care if anyone thinks I'm cheating - it is fascinating though.

I have read that obese people are usually found to be deficient in a hormone that others have . MJ contains a synthetic chemical which mimicks this hormone. It is o more cheating that a depressed person or diabetic person's medication

"most people who severely overeat, binge etc for emotional reasons or psychological reasons are not eating because they’re hungry. They’re not hungry. "

I don't know. They do at least claim to feel hungry. I think if you usually eat more than average you will develop a bigger than average hunger/appetite.

I lose weight I need to eat under 800 calories a day. Mounjaro 'fixes' some of my issues, and allows me to live a pretty normal life while also losing weight eating 1000-1200 calories a day.

I've come off 3 other medications due to Mounjaro. My daily life is so vastly improved by it. And not due to weight loss. Weight loss is actually just a positive side effect as far as I am concerned.

Usually? As in the majority? Which hormone?

But it still doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve had binge eating disorder and I’ve also had Gastroparesis (at separate times) I’ve had bulimia and I gained four stone after my mum died and I was in an abusive relationship. Every single time I overate to the point of bursting I was NOT hungry. I was never hungry. It was comfort. This is why you read of folk who have their stomach stapled and still end up liquidising Mars bars to drink. I’m speaking 100% from my own personal lived experience. I know what hunger is and I can tell you not once have I ever over eaten because my brain told me I was hungry.

Yes - I put off starting for a long time because everything I read was around reducing hunger, and I thought 'well I'm never really hungry anyway'.

My cravings were debilitating though. When people say 'oh but slim people deal with the food noise and cravings too, we just manage to resist' - how on earth can you be confident that it's the same level for you as it is for someone else?

Like, I love a drink now and then. Really enjoy it, feels great, quite often think I quite fancy a glass of wine or a nice G&T, would really enhance the evening etc etc. But then it is absolutely no skin off my nose to then go, 'actually nah, I can't be bothered, just calories I don't need, or no point opening the bottle because I don't know when I'll next have another'. Equally, it's really easy to enjoy one or two and then stop. Even with the pressure, the social expectation, Christmas, friends going 'oh go on, just have one' etc. My husband enjoys a few drinks at least 3 nights of the week, most of my friends and family drink more, and more regularly than I do. I also grew up with drinkers, was very normalised, all that messaging during my formative years. There's every reason for me to be a big drinker now. But I'm not. Because that particular receptor in my brain, or whatever it is that is switched 'on' for those who struggle with alcohol, is just not there for me. No moral superiority to it. Yes sometimes I have to suppress the urge, yes sometimes it's been harder than others. But it is in no way as difficult for me as it is for others, particularly anyone battling with that particular addiction.

Not the same for food with me. It was overpowering. I cried my first week of taking mounjaro just with the sense of relief from that constant mental battle every day. I hadn't even realised how ever present it was.

We've lost sight of what a healthy weight loss injection is.

Not a great example because loads of people ARE against anti-depressants or even any medication for mental illnesses except the most serious like schizophrenia. I notice that many parents with children with ADHD don't want to medicate them, whereas that wouldn't be the case for a physical illness.

Or the assumption that obesity was driven by psychological and emotional drivers was wrong for most (not all) people and it's been physical all along - i.e. people with obesity just have more food noise (and therefore require a lot more willpower, which is difficult to sustain over time in a very obesogenic environment) than people who are a healthy weight, who may literally only think about food when they are properly hungry. I agree it's interesting, especially where people are reporting positive side effects re attention. motivation and not wanting to drink / take drugs

GLP 1, which hormone do you think?