People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

I don’t think you understand what facts are . Or opinions

Facts are facts regardless of your “opinions” about whether they are or aren’t facts. if something is a fact, and in your opinion it’s not, it’s just another example of your opinions being wrong.

Someone might need mounjaro for their health and wellbeing. That may very well be a fact. You may think it’s not a fact , in which case you would be wrong

Anyways….

An opinion may be a person's judgment as to the validity of some testable assertion. When the assertion is tested, the judgment may be shown to be correct or incorrect.

Whether it’s wrong or not depends on whether the risk is too high or not as a matter of fact.
If that can be tested and proven to be wrong then your opinion is wrong.

It’s absolutely bizarre that you believe all personal judgements to be beyond correction simply because they are someone’s personal judgement.

Yes you do - it’s been stated multiple times above and in other threads.

Yes your feelings are your feelings. Feelings are subjective. It doesn’t make sense to ask if they are right or wrong, it’s simply the reality of how someone feels.

Opinions are not the same as feelings. Your opinions can be wrong if you hold an opinion a fact and it turns out you are wrong about that fact. Eg “in my opinion the earth is flat”. Wrong.
Anyways. Next?

@MNHQ we need a face palm emoji in the reactions menu, please. 🤦🏽‍♀️

I went to the gym and have come back to a Swiss cheese of a thread! I guess it all went a bit wild?

😂

So I went down a rabbit hole of reading philosophical essays about whether opinions can be wrong. It seems the central challenge in answering this question is how we identify what is an “opinion” from what is a “fact”. This excellent article https://philosophersmag.com/the-fact-opinion-distinction/
proposes the following distinction:

o A statement of fact is one that has objective content and is well-supported by the available evidence.
o A statement of opinion is one whose content is either subjective or else not well supported by the available evidence.

So there we are @Dreamskies you may say your statement is an “opinion” and claim that it therefore cant be “wrong”, if and only you acknowledge that it is entirely subjective and / or not well supported by available evidence .

Is it time for the bingo card again?

Dreamskies has left the building😊

Not sure what direction the thread took … but I was listening to LBC today and they had a segment on the black market obesity drugs that people are buying which are causing severe side effects. Obviously if given by a doctor these drugs probably help - but with things like TikTok shop - fake drugs can get in the hands of vulnerable people - not just weight loss drugs .

amp.theguardian.com/food/2022/nov/09/i-miss-eating-weight-loss-drug-ozempic-food-repulsive

Me coming back to this thread after a few hours

There was an undercover investigation done in Ireland and it showed how easy it was to get these injections, one woman flies to Turkey every 2 weeks ans buys then there, when the investigators got the injections the spelling was incorrect and no instructions about storing in a fridge, she was literally selling them on facebook, so dangerous and shows the length people will go to, to get these drugs

To be fair, people take illegal and fake drugs all day every day, weight loss drugs are no different. From painkillers, to even animal tranquilisers ie ketamine etc.

speed used to be the drug of choice, if there is a drug that can be abused, someone is out there who will abuse it.

Totally agree, but imagine taking that chance, I'm on the injections but my doctors monitoring me, and I'm still even nervous taking them.

I’m not nervous taking them, as since thalidomide the testing and trial requirements for a drug to be approved is very onerous, you’re looking at about 15 years before it’s approved. And millions and millions of people on them,

but I would never take an illegal drug, as that does make me nervous . But many many do. So clearly there is a type of person who is a big risk taker, and will take the risk to get the reward. Be it getting high, getting zombied, getting thin, getting your brain to work faster.

As said, if a drug can be abused to get a result someone wants, there is always someone who will willingly abuse it. And there is always someone who will undertake the criminal act to make a fake/ sell it to them/exploit them for the money.

Ok, I’ll jump in.

I recently lost 1.5 stone over 3 months. My weight has always been up and down because I’ve got PCOS, and I’m menopausal. I lost it because I did weight watchers and I exercised a lot. A lot of people have commented that I must have been using injections, they usually say “ oh, you’ve…then they pretend to inject their arm”. I’ll admit that this comment really pisses me off. It’s now the default setting. Lost weight? Oh, no one does it the old fashioned way anymore. Just drop £200 to a private GP and you’ll be a size 10.

Now, someone will come along now, and say I’m misinformed, and they will be right, but quite frankly I don’t want to be informed about them. Also, I am quite shocked at some of the things I read on here. Someone on WL injections actually put up a post recently saying it reversed the menopause. I mean how unbelievably irresponsible was it to say that?

Now, let me say that I think they are a good thing. I know people whose weight is a real worry. We know people whose weight has caused diabetes, heart problems and the personal aside, it’s going to save the NHS a lot of money. And let’s be clear here, the govt. wants to save money, and they don’t care about the collateral damage of some people dying taking them.

So, I think they are a good thing in the same way I think giving the Covid jab to those who are medically vulnerable is a good thing. However, I think the bar to being administered them privately needs to be much higher.

I know lots of people 1-2 stone overweight. If they are taking weight loss jabs then I think they are really irresponsible, lazy and lacking in any kind of willpower. Losing a massive amount of weight is too much for a person to do alone, losing a stone is not hard.

It’s not a competition, but it is like saying I just ran a marathon, I trained for 6 months, and ran 60k a week. I finished it and I’m really proud. Then someone comes along and says they started off with you, then got a lift, and got out at the end 50 m before the finish line, and got the same medal and congratulations as you. Again, I’m not talking about massively overweight people here, I’m talking about the people in my zone. Yes, they are cheats.

I’m sure I’ll get stick for this, but as I said, overweight to the point of having health issues, yes the injections are great. Need to lose a bit of weight, and have no willpower, and are taking injections, then I think you are pretty stupid to take the risk of the side effects.

You're describing the exact intended use and recipients of the drugs there @GettingMy2025ActTogether - they are for people who are obese, or else have a BMI of 27+ along with a weight-related health problem. They are literally for people whose weight is a health concern, not for people who want to drop a stone. That's why they are only available on prescription for people who meet the medical criteria.

Yes, of course there are black market drugs of all kinds and people who will obtain them illegally and against medical advice but that's not really relevant.

I suggest reading up on it.
No one can take it if they are merely overweight.
You are prescribed it if your BMI is over 30.
Or over 27 with weight related conditions.

So no one falls into your narrative. Aside from those obtaining it fraudulently, and they are not our problem.

So educate yourself before rambling on.