People who think weight loss injections are cheating

[AuntieDote]

I've seen this viewpoint over multiple threads recently, and I'm just really curious to understand it a bit more because it makes no sense to me whatsoever.

What do you think people using the injections are cheating at?

As in - what's the competition and who are they gaining an unfair advantage over? What do you think the rules of being allowed to lose weight are/ should be?

Is it more important to you that overweight people/ those struggling with obesity lose the weight, become healthier, reduce the burden on the NHS, stop taking up more than their allocated amount of space in the world, or just stop doing whatever it is that upsets people so much about the existence of fat people -- or is it more important that they struggle and suffer whilst doing so?

Or would you secretly prefer them to remain fat so you can feel superior?

Is it that you feel you've worked really hard to either lose weight, keep it off or never put it on in the first place, so nobody else should be allowed to achieve this without the same amount of struggle?

What do you think the weight loss injections actually do, and do you not recognise that those on them are also doing all the usual things people who are trying to lose weight e.g. modify their eating, exercise etc? Does it not count that they're doing these things because it's made easier in some ways by the drug?

What types of weight loss support or tools are not 'cheating'? e.g. I used hypnosis once and it worked for a bit, to the point that I felt pretty much the same way I do with the injections i.e. reduction in food noise and compulsion to snack etc. It didn't last anything like as long, but it worked for a time - was that cheating?

Would it still be cheating if they weren't as effective as they are?

FWIW, I really couldn't care less if people think I'm cheating - who cares? Who does it impact only me and my bank balance? If someone said here, press this button and you'll be a healthy BMI overnight and stay there forever I'd press it with both hands and not give a shit about how anyone felt about it.

But it's just the logic of it that baffles me - I've never seen it as a competition and have never felt like getting to or being a healthy weight only counts if it's done in a certain way - I suppose I'm not much interested in what size anyone else is or what they do to get that way, so I can't imagine for a second ever thinking another person was 'cheating' - only ever being happy for them if they're happy and hopefully healthy too.

K

It's so annoying.
I know glp1s are not a failsafe magic pill. I don't need assholes talking utter rubbish to tell me so.
If they don't want to do it. Don't. But don't spout shit about something you clearly know nothing about. 🙄

This post is all extremely ignorant and not the least bit supported by science .

This is true;
. People are overweight because they eat the wrong foods and they eat to much of it.

But what you don’t seem able to grasp- for reasons that are unclear to me- is that there are physiological causes for this that are not effectively fixed through “education”.

Well they are, because you’ll learn to fuel your body correctly. But ok, you’d rather blame your hormones than take any responsibility. Best of luck to you.

Why do the jabs put you off booze?

This. It’s total bollocks being posted. I can’t fathom being so so envious and resentful you’d make shit up and post it spitefully.

that’s as fucked up as it gets about your own weight issues.

Look. I have said again and again that IN MY CASE it is an endocrine disorder and I have been prescribed Mounjaro by an ENDOCRINOLOGIST. I can't be the only one. What an inconvenient truth for you, who evidently only wants to believe that fat people are morally bankrupt, feckless gluttons who deserve to be looked down on. Unbelievable.

I’d rather be informed about my health through science and medicine , and use evidence based treatments , yes 😂. And id definitely advise all others to do the same. Good luck to me indeed.

I don't think it's cheating. I just hope that people losing weight are able to change their diet and activity habits permanently in order to keep the weight off for good.

So, re we’ll have to stay on the WLI for life or put the weight back on question.

Research from as far back as 2014, indicates that in people with obesity GLP 1 secretion is impaired, with approx 20% less GLP 1 evident after fasting and meals. This was true of subjects who did not have insulin sensitivity (ie diabetes, so evident in otherwise ‘normative’ subjects who did not have a co-existing endocrinological issue). It is secreted in the small intestines but also produced by PPG neurons in the NTS part of the brain stem, where it regulates food intake, stress responses, and neuronal functions:

• Food intake: GLP-1 is a potent regulator of food intake, and the central GLP-1 system is activated in response to stressful stimuli.
• Stress responses: The PPG neurons are well-positioned to receive and relay stress signals.
• Neuronal functions: GLP-1 influences neuronal functions like neurogenesis, neurodegeneration, blood pressure control, and energy homeostasis.

Ie, it has effects on both the central and autonomic nervous systems, impacting both metabolic processes and what some may consider ‘mental health’ processes. At the moment it seems unclear whether obesity is caused by impaired GLP1 secretion or not (ie is there a causal or correlative link), but response to glucose (in T2 diabetics and non diabetics) is significantly poorer in obese individuals with lower GLP1 receptor levels. However, studies also show that GLP1 levels increase after exercise and the consuming of certain foods (proteins, nuts and seeds, avocados), suggesting that diet and exercise can boost levels.

Those of us on these medications start low and build up, lose the weight, and are encouraged in the process to change the things we eat to a higher protein/fat diet and to increase exercise levels. As we titrate down the doses after reaching target, I infer that the lifestyle changes we have made should support continued increased natural production of GLP1 so that as we reduce the dosage to zero, we have retrained our bodies to secrete it more efficiently. Now, many may ask, why not simply exercise and eat this way from the start and bypass the medications? I infer that obviously if you are carrying 5-12 excess stone as many of us were at the start of the journey, that it would be next to impossible to a) exercise to sufficient levels to get the beneficial post-exercise secretion levels and b) be able to eat the correct quantity of fats/proteins etc to also maintain the needed calorie deficit to do the same.

Effectively, taking the medications seems to operate in a similar way to taking antidepressant medication: a trauma/illness etc impairs the CNS ability ro produce the correct levels of neurotransmitters to regulate seratonin etc, so we take a drug that does it for us. As we go through counselling and process our trauma, change our lifestyles to eat better/exerciise and manage our depression better, then we get to a situation where out bodies are better able to balance those hormones - so we start to titrate off the medications and the body begins to resume the function they have served. Now, just as will be the case with the WL medications, there will be a percentage of people who relapse and have to go back on SSRIs etc, but the goal of treatment and the medication support, is to retrain the body to function without it.

I am not qualified (I do have a degree in psychology and did a couple of module on neuroscience, but am woefully under skilled in parsing all the research at expert level), so much of this is inferences from reading how these medications work, but to me this seems compelling evidence that many of us will be able to maintain our weight loss without medication - albeit with hard work. I trust this also, given recent research from back in Feb this year looking at more than 400k WLI users/over several years which showed that 56% of subjects keep ALL of the weight off after a year and a further 22% [from memory] keep 25-50% of the weight off in the same period, compared to only 95% of traditional dieters.

Again, I would simply state that if you can lose weight/maintain weight without WLI, that is fantastic. For those of us who can’t access to them is miraculous. I appreciate many people have concerns about their usage but, frankly, as no-one is forcing you to use them, those of us who chose to do so would appreciate your respectful silence on the matter. Our bodies, our choice.

The glee coming off you as you hope for failure for everyone! Why? Why is this? Please tell us honestly why you don't want to "believe" in GLP1 agonists? Why do you not want people helped by them?

I don’t think it’s glee, it’s resentment. Bitterness. Clearly some form of weight issue with the poster, either struggles to stay slim, or fat and can’t get the drugs, but it’s clearly about them and not the drugs,

And here we have it. It really is that people are jealous that people can now lose weight and not go through the pain of constantly resisting food. It's as simple as that.

You are not a naturally slim person. It's a battle against yourself and you see yourself as the 'winner' against the people who aren't as strong as you, who don't live their lives in constant denial and therefor put weight on. You see those people as weak, lazy and undisciplined. You have a trophy to prove that you are strong, motivated and disciplined and its your slim body. You don't want anyone to have the trophy without the work. Fair enough.

My partner is naturally slim. If he fancied the Bonne Maman yoghurt he'd have it, he would never deny himself anything. If he's hungry he eats, if he's not he doesn't. He literally never thinks about food as good or bad. He just eats it, enjoys it and that's that. He's 64 and weighs the same as he did at 21.

The low rumbling in the background is the sound of the plain-but-skinny brigade pulling their wagons into a circle.

me too!!!! I have bilateral adrenal tumours that, being bilateral, can't be surgically removed. THIS is why mounjaro has been a miracle for me.

I also have PCOS - and weighed less straight after giving birth than I did when I got pregnant because OMG my body actually worked during pregnancy! Hormones, who would have thought!

WTAF???

Really? I weighed the same/a few pounds less after each pregnancy too (also PCOS!). I’ve been labouring all this time thinking I was a pregnancy diet guru - never occurred to me that it was because my hormones were finally in sync! 🙏

Oh stop it!

Lightbulb moment!!! I didn't have morning sickness, and certainly followed my cravings. Yet I technically lost weight because my hormones were happy for the first time in their life! Happened with both pregnancies :)

@JusteanBiscuits and @CautiousLurker01 I also had no morning sickness and lost weight during pregnancy, 2st less the day after I gave birth than I was before I found out was pregnant. Insulin resistant PCOS and Gestational diabetes so was on insulin during pregnancy.

Unfortunately the Doctor insisted that GD resolves itself in birth and so I could consider myself non-diabetic with no treatment or testing needed.

It's only when I got diagnosed with T2 this August that I learned I should have been being tested yearly for the last 10 years and all the symptoms I've been having for years and have always been fobbed off as just being fat by doctors and nurses were probably untreated diabetes. But it's ok because all I have now is permanent nerve damage in my feet and damage to my eyes. So hey ho.

@InfoSecInTheCity am so sorry that it went unacknowledged and investigated for so long.

You just can't grasp that people overeat because of the hormone problem, can't you?
That is the mechanism by which the hormone problem causes obesity.
Science is tricky for you, is it?

It's extremely worrying how many posters are giving medical opinions without holding appropriate qualifications. Perhaps @mumsnet should consider whether these threads are appropriate, dangerous, and/or giving misleading advice.

Ach, they are soon pointed out as talking nonsense.

Weight loss injections are to obesity what insulin is to diabetics; life saving.