Teacher telling 7yo that Father Christmas not real

[Peaceandquietandacuppa]

Is it reasonable for a RE teacher to tell 7 year olds that Father Christmas isn’t real?

My 7 year old DS has just told me that his RE teacher told the class Father Christmas “isn’t real” today. He isn’t one to over-exaggerate. I asked if any of the kids prompted it by asking and he said no, she just said it.

If you think it’s unreasonable, would you say anything to the school?

YABU - teachers are fine to say FC is not real at the age of 7

YANBU - let the kids / parents decide if FC is real. Just don’t say anything!

Eh? Not sure what you were reading, are you sure it was my post?

The 'weird' was me thinking it was weird that your stated experience was so different to mine. Which it is. As a mum of a primary aged child, hand-wringing over telling children about Santa, and a strong desire to tell them Santa isn't real, has never featured in my conversations at the school gate or with friends who have similar-aged children. It's not something people have construed as 'lying'. I only ever see that on here.

Which part are you reading me as saying somebody must not be from the UK if they think differently? That wasn't my intention at all and even reading back I can't see where you get that from.

My 38 year old DSIL has a non-white cultural background but was born and has always lived here. It was only last year that she realised that your average White British child believes Santa is real. I had to drag her into the kitchen before she put her foot in it in front of my 5 and 6 year olds. She thought he was “just a character like Mickey Mouse.”

Which 'lovely list of assumptions about how you must take joy in running around 'spoiling' Santa' are you referring to? I don't think I stated any assumptions. I asked you some questions. Because I'm intrigued as to why you seem to feel so strongly about this.

By their nature, questions are not assumptions. Asking these questions is me trying to understand where you're coming from and check that against how I experience your stance, so I know I'm understanding you correctly.

I've never heard or seen 'expect your child to have no friends'. That is OTT and not something I would say. Is that why you feel so strongly about this?

Re children telling the truth are being deliberately mean - well, sometimes they are, aren't they? More often, though, it's a kind of triumphant, superior 'I know something you don't' type of approach (which is normal for the age), or it slips out inadvertently because they haven't thought about how it might land with other children and nobody gave them a heads-up.

I would suggest engaging in some insight. Maybe have a reflection on why you expect us to be complicit in your lies and give a good head wobble. Gosh, this reads as aggressive and bossy. Perhaps you could also reflect?

Well maybe you should have just read my comments the first time rather than asking goady questions.

I'll ask a third time, have you told your child they aren't allowed to discuss Santa at school?

Or, as I suspect by your repeated evasion of the question, do you think it's fine for them to discuss their beliefs, but not fine for other children to discuss their beliefs unless they match up with yours?

Your posts and others have referenced the quotes I summarised.

Children at 5 aren't capable of the complex emotional intelligence you are expecting! And yes I am sick and tir d of the threads on here expectations on my children.

Yes insight would be beneficial to you as you still are of the opinion that everyone else should shut up and keep up the lie.

Nope. And nope for my children. I am not teaching my children to lie for your sake .

The stay stumm comment is absolutely not acceptable.

I did read your comments. It's not clear to me which assumptions you accuse me of making about you. If you would care to make that clear, I will address them. It's no good trying to bully me to answer your question, while refusing to answer mine.

Sure.

You seem to be taking this very personally about your 5 year old. This is a thread originally about a 7 year old, though I suspect many of the comments are more general.

You also seem very precious about the idea that this is a 'lie', as if it's a harmful lie and that this is unacceptable for your child. I don't understand why you think this. Most 5 year olds believe in Santa. If you've told your child otherwise and you are in the UK, then your child will likely be an outlier. That may be a problem for you and your child, as it's highly likely the parents of their peers are going to be dismayed if your child spoils it for their friends. It was foreseeable, however, and if you chose to go against the grain, then presumably you saw this coming and were prepared.

The stay stumm comment is absolutely not acceptable. It's perfectly acceptable to me. I don't see why you think I should keep quiet about my wish for you to not spoil something my child finds magical. I'm perfectly within my rights to let you know my feelings on the matter. If you feel uncomfortable about that, then I'm sorry for you. However, you've felt very free on this thread to be aggressive and rude to people who disagree with you, so you're not in a position to complain if other peoples' stated wishes make you feel uncomfortable.

I work in a school, and we all keep the magic alive for the children at school. I would be extremely upset if an adult told my 7 year old he wasn't real. They are only little for a short while and the excitement and magic is lovely to watch.

It's nothing about other adults lying to them it's about not being a total dick and saying it. There wasn't any need to. My kids don't believe anyone but they know not to ruin it for the younger one's, just human decency.

So you want theoretically my five year old to say nothing whilst not expecting the same of the five year old who believes. How exactly is that fair? Why is the pressure on my child rather than those lying to their child?

To be honest you're just the people I would tell my children to ignore and they are just trying to ruin it for everyone else. It wouldn't make them question it, so you crack on. But it's sad to take away something that's meant to bring joy for some weird moral superiority.

Also as a parent I would tell my child to not ruin it for other people because I'm a decent human being, just like I'd tell them not to discuss grown up topics with younger children such as sex.

I'm sure of an older child discussed something you deemed inappropriate you would be the first to complain, but hey I'm not going to tell my child to lie to appease you.

Thank you for clearly stating the othering and discrimination so blatantly.
🤦‍♀️

I am not taking it personally I am shocked at the incapacity of adults to understand their lying doesn't trump our collective choice to not lie to our children.

And no we aren't outliers at all but the majority of the absolute hypocritical individuals appear to be on here

Love to know if the same parents don't allow their children access to a phone, tablet etc because the collective belief that a child up to 10 is believing is hilarious 😂 😂

What on earth are you banging on about 'othering and discrimination'?

I don't know who the Jeff you are, where you come from or anything about you. You're just a random on the internet to me. All I know about you is the posts I've read on this thread. I can't 'other' you in any possible way. Anything of that kind that you're reading in to my posts is you projecting.

I am not taking it personally I am shocked at the incapacity of adults to understand their lying doesn't trump our collective choice to not lie to our children. I don't understand this kind of mentality. I'm not asking you not to 'lie' to your child (overly-dramatic though I view that stance to be, it's just a fun tale that injects a bit of magic, you're not going to damage your child fgs).

In most situations there's no need to declaim that you don't believe in Father Christmas or that you do. No need to offer an opinion at all, surely? You don't need to fret about a 'lie'.

Yes

You blatantly stated how those who don't lie are outliers! Exactly how in earth is that not discriminative in nature?

" No need to offer an opinion at all, surely? You don't need to fret about a 'lie'"
Yes we bloody do because of people like you putting pressure on for year olds to not be bloody 5 ,year olds ,,🤦‍♀️.

So yes that's the issue we chose honesty and we end up with the challenge as opposed to those lying, completely unfair.

I am not taking it personally I am shocked at the incapacity of adults to understand their lying doesn't trump our collective choice to not lie to our children.

Nobody is asking you to lie to your children. Don't be ridiculous.

People are just saying you'd be unreasonable to tell other young children that Father Christmas doesn't exist rather than choosing a more diplomatic response.
It's not hard.

So the onus is on me to lie,? No. I am not lying to any child and neither are my children. The fact your brain twists the lie as being preferable to honesty is actually hilarious

Why? By 7 years old there will definitely be classmates that no longer believe and children who were never taught believe, that your child will be exposed to. Your child is old enough to be working it out. It's also meant to be fun make believe between a child and their parents, not a national conspiracy. Disappointed I can understand, furious is a massive overreaction.

Of course I wouldn’t expect a child who doesn’t believe in Father Christmas to lie. My DS has loads of friends who say he’s not real. I WOULD expect an adult in a position such as teacher to be a bit more sensitive and respectful of the fact some people practice this cultural tradition.

Lovely personal attack for telling the truth and for the sensation equating a known lie to religious beliefs protected by law 😂😂😂😂😂

It's protected by law, sure. Doesn't mean it's not a lie though

And it's not your place or business to answer that question for someone else's child.

So the onus is on me to lie,? No. I am not lying to any child and neither are my children. The fact your brain twists the lie as being preferable to honesty is actually hilarious

You seem quite angry about this. Are you okay?

I'll say it again, nobody is asking you to lie.
Just give a non committal answer. It's not hard.

'Does Father Christmas exist?'
'Some people believe he does'

Would that be so difficult? Especially if it meant it kept the peace in your social circle?