to think home ed families are going to have to accept more oversight?

[DrZaraCarmichael]

To try to prevent more cases like Sara Sharif. Taken out of school - where teachers were raising concerns - and then apparently fell off the radar.

Yes children's services have to look long and hard at themselves but taking a child out of school, especially when there has been previous SS involvement, has to raise a whole field of red flags surely??

I can see how families who are home educating for the right reasons and who have nothing to hide will see this as intrusive and unnecessary. But something has to change, right?

Maybe? I think teens in UK are seen as troublesome, possibly bc there isn't much for them to do that's relevant to them? Or because of such long days at school and then studying at home they don't really have enough family time? No autonomy? Drugs are not easily obtained. Police carry guns so teens don't think they are seen as 'soft touch'?
I don't know.
Husband is Police Officer and noticed the difference straight away.

I'm not middle class.

And those that are interested to know what true inclusion looks like, see this.
I looked at schools back home and we might still do it.

This is properly state accredited mainstream indie school, with ethos of democratic school. Cost £300pcm

See the words.. you design the attendance with psychologist and special ed teacher. As much as child is capable to do.

Basically they have kids joining, some full time, some as much as they can (day or two), some home ed but have kids attend twice a week trips.

"needs and capabilities of the school" is interesting and indicates that this isn't true inclusion.

You are probably reading it out of context. (person who wrote it isn't english native) They don't say no to kids because school can't support them. I spoke to them in detail.

Do you know what happened with the child in the end?

My opinion is based on real life experience of both school and home ed.
You opinion is based on what?

Social Services do not take kids into care unless the situation is absolutely desperate. That is because they have to consider the alternatives. There are not lots of lovely foster parents lining up to take in neglected and abused children. There may be foster parents with too many kids struggling themselves who will take another child in. Or a private care home poorly run with untrained low paid staff with a place. The alternatives are not always that great.

HE is illegal in many countries, including many Western European ones. It’s not outrageous, it’s just how things work abroad.

I’m from a country where home schooling is illegal, with some exceptions which need to be applied for and in practice are never granted. There’s also very little social acceptance of home schooling. I personally think that if much stricter rules around HE could save one child from being tortured to death, it’s absolutely worth it.

I think the combination of lax rules around HE and the culture of sweeping things under the carpet and not rocking the boat at all costs has cost way too many children’s lives in the UK. It’s shocking how many cases like Sara’s are reported. Every time I read that “lessons will be learned” and then the story repeats itself.

So you want to force all children to be in school just to save one child from an abusive home? And how would you feel about all the children who will take their own lives because of the difficulties they have at school?
It's not just pointless whataboutery, there are thousands of children who are being home educated just because of the harm they were experiencing in the school system. Are they less important?
There's no simple answer here. Social services need significantly more funding, the entire school system needs overhauling as well as funding increases, and we need to start paying attention to the trauma we're inflicting on thousands of children.

@Gherkintastic I was reading a different thread and I think it's family values.

Another murder (Isabella).
Her mother was a nursery teacher. Presumably the little girl was at nursery too.
hellorayo.co.uk/greatest-hits/suffolk/news/scott-jeff-sentencing-toddler-murder/

No, the abuse started after they moved away and were moving around camping and staying in hotels etc. She wasn't at nursery. She was wearing sunglasses to hide her bruises (which you can still see on the train cctv) A nursery would have noticed them.

So, why aren't under 5 mandated to be in nursery every day as well? Specially under 1 yo are are one of the main risk categories.
It seems to me that common thread all those cases (Daniel Pelka, Star Hobson, Sara, Isabella and numerous others) have is step-parent.

Well done, so far you’ve managed to come up with every home education cliche that exists 👏

I don’t know the suicide rates in countries that prohibit home schooling versus countries that permit it. Do you have them at hand?

There are many other options available for people who don’t have the option of HE to work within the system to make sure their children thrive. Children are taught in the Netherlands, Germany, Sweden and elsewhere without the option of HE and their parents somehow manage to bring them up.

It’s very clear to me that the combination of malfunctioning social services and parents being able to pull their children from school at any opportunity is not working.

I also don’t understand the outcry on this thread about stricter oversight. Surely if your children thrive in home ed more oversight should be welcomed with open arms?

We have very active social services and no home schooling at all. My DC go to school and they are taught from day 1 about their rights and monitored for any signs of abuse. I think the only country with more trigger-happy social services than mine is Norway. I’m fine with that, the system protects the vulnerable members from monsters like Sara’s family.

So, you don't know UK school system? Or state of UK SS?
Or are you from UK and now living abroad?

To spout crap like that this late in the thread you are either hard of thinking or deliberately winding people up, the countries you have mentioned do not have the same issues in schools. Although obviously there will be some. More oversight will cause children to die at their own hands. They thrive because their are out of a controlling atmosphere, bring that control into their homes some will commit suicide. How much simpler do you need it to be?

Also..
Out of 44 countries only the following countries don't allow home education at all:
Albania, Andorra, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Germany, Greece, Lithuania, Montenegro, North Macedonia, San Marino, Sweden and Turkey.
Although 'Some of these countries allow homeschooling but only for children with severe illnesses or disabilities.'

progressiveschooling.com/homeschool-laws-in-europe-by-countries/

I can believe you when you say they don’t have the same issues, we certainly do have issues at schools, including very serious ones like drugs and organised crime.

I have asked about relevant suicide statistics because another PP also claimed that they are lower in the UK thanks to HE. I think it’s very far fetched but I don’t have these numbers at hand, do you?

You can't compare high tax/high oublic service of Sweden (I presume you live in) vs badly funded UK services and completely different high stakes school system we have here.
But year on year you hear this...
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2024/9/5/why-are-uk-teens-the-least-happy-in-europe

https://www.ascl.org.uk/News/Our-news-and-press-releases/70-of-schools-in-England-have-faced-real-terms-cut

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c70zdv4r4kdo.amp

No they said they will be higher if children suffering from school based trauma are forced back into their environment

You clearly know nothing at all about the UK education system or what our home education policy is so with respect I suggest you stop spouting such unfounded nonsense on a uk forum.

We do have a huge fully legal thriving home education system and we do not have an effective social services as demonstrated by the tragic incident that this thread is about.

I laughed out loud at high public service - we have failing health services (impossible to see a GP) and such a high rotation of teachers that my DC’s teachers for some subjects were changed four times this year, and DCs are in good schools. School meals are free and not fast food though. Thank you for the links, I will read them.

But a child at school sees multiple unrelated adults every day, who are likely to spot signs of abuse, unlike a child educated at home. Surely regular welfare checks or access to a network outside of home for HE children would be a good thing? I’m not talking about the quality of education.

In Sweden social services are very hands-on and it’s most often the school that triggers their intervention.

And you presumably think that home educated children never go out?
Just today, two of mine had their regular weekly football camp, whilst the youngest has gone on Cubs sleepover.
Monday we have speech and language person for oldest, followed by home ed social all afternoon. There would be swimming but it's finished for Christmas.
Tuesday is 1:1 with art teacher, followed by home ed gymnastics, followed by beavers, followed by cubs. Wednesday is social again, one of DC has occupational therapy, tennis, etcetc.
All of the coaches/therapists etc have a duty to report any concerns. Home ed socials are full of former teachers, we have at least one Dr, some nurses. Don't you think they have safeguarding duty too?
My neighbour is a social worker, the other works for children abuse charity. They aso have a safeguarding duty.