Page 4 | AIBU to think vice principal had unrealistic expectations?

Supermummy88 · 2024-12-10T23:53:15+00:00

Good evening all, I’m a geography teacher and took on a new role as head of department last year in November at a fairly new school…this august were their first set of GCSE results. When I started there was a lack of resources, very poorly planned schemes of work and no GCSE lessons on their system. I had a lot of my own resources however I didn’t have any for the exam board that the school do for geography. I have worked extremely hard for the past year to get this department up and running. The other geography teacher is unqualified and new to this country and therefore I couldn’t really rely on him much. I have put in a lot of effort and I don’t think I can put in much more. I am doing intervention classes, lots of exam questions, creating lots of new GCSE content etc. I had a meeting with the VP and AH yesterday and they said that the year 11 mock grades were not good enough in comparison to the RE and history results and that I need to do something as a matter of urgency to ensure that the students reach their targets. They then started going on about how good the RE teacher is and how her grades are amazing. They have come up with a whole list of things I need to do. I just don’t have the time or energy as I have primary aged children on my own. AIBU to just tell them to find someone else for this role? I just can’t deal with the constant scrutiny!!!

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 15:56

This teacher seems to have worked miracles

In what way?

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 15:58

I can go from 8.30 until lunch without having had the opportunity to go to the toilet

Well yes, that is pretty normal. I would often be in meetings from 8.30-lunch. I assume you go before work, around lunchtime, again around 3.30, then stay in work til 5.30 or so and go again before you leave. That seems fine?

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 15:59

We can’t go to the toilet when we want or eat and drink when we want. We have very little autonomy over our schedules during the working day.

Again, very normal in a workplace.

lanthanum · 16/12/2024 16:12

Look at their list of things they want you to do. Estimate the time required for each. Identify whether there is anything that could be done by someone other than you (whether the non-specialist, or perhaps your line manager).
Request a meeting to discuss the way forward. Explain that you are at full stretch and that ending up signed off with stress-related illness is obviously not going to help the GCSE grades. Ask about time off timetable to undertake tasks. Ask whether SLT can help with any of it. What is the highest priority? Is there anything you are currently doing that could be dropped? (If you have any ideas for that, then be ready to suggest them.)
If they try to make comparisons with the other humanities teachers, point out that you want to discuss your workload, not theirs.

If you don't think you'd cope well with this meeting, either talk to your union rep and see if they can come with you, or try putting it all in writing instead.

noblegiraffe · 16/12/2024 16:13

No, it’s not normal. Don’t be daft.

Phineyj · 16/12/2024 16:16

Hi OP, you'd probably get more sensible advice in the Staffroom thread.

My experience of 15 years of teaching is that most SLT don't have statistical training or knowledge and don't actually understand things like variation around the mean, statistical significance, reference values etc.

They also often have favourites. Who are often young and without kids and therefore can do Stakhanovite hours if they wish.

The favourites are never, ever, middle aged women with kids!

Smile and nod, do anything specific/reasonable that you've been asked to do (conspicuously), get the year done and keep your eye out for a new job. And don't unduly protect your co-worker.

The staff turnover speaks for itself tbh.

Tutor2u are good for off the peg resources if they cover the right board.

Ablondiebutagoody · 16/12/2024 16:25

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 06:46

Ah, I see the mistake here, and it is common from teachers. Work hours do not include breaks (e.g. lunch breaks, tea breaks), so when I say I work 9-5, that counts as 7.5 hours, not 8, to account for the 30 mins of the day when I am nipping to the loo, grabbing a snack, etc.

I assume you grab a snack and nip to the loo during your days - you may even grab a 20 min lunch break and take a tea break as well. This time isn't included in your work hours, so you likely work less than 40 hours a week (prob closer to 35), which is entirely reasonable and comparable to most other jobs.

This whole "I work 50 hours a week" from teachers, when they are including all breaks (and sometimes even their commute 😂) is ridiculous - no one else does that. I have heard a teacher on here say "I leave the house at 7am and get home at 6pm, therefore I work 11 hours a day, or 55 hours a week"...where that just describes a normal 37-40 hours a week of actual work, like the rest of us.

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I guess that your job doesn't involve maths. How is working 35 hours but paid only for 26 "comparable to most jobs"?

SaagAloopa · 16/12/2024 16:39

monkeysox · 16/12/2024 10:37

Are you joking. Teaching is all hours. Of course op is working evenings and weekends.

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I'm not joking no. How would I know teachers work at weekends?

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 16:45

noblegiraffe · 16/12/2024 16:13

No, it’s not normal. Don’t be daft.

Of course it is.

noblegiraffe · 16/12/2024 17:54

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 16:45

Of course it is.

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Yeah except I know lots of people with professional jobs who can go to the toilet when they need to and certainly don’t have to wait 4 hours for the opportunity.

I’ve done plenty of jobs where that’s the case too.

Some people seem to act like teachers have no idea what other jobs are like. People working from home talk about putting washes on or walking the dog or even picking up the kids.

cakeorwine · 16/12/2024 18:04

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 15:59

We can’t go to the toilet when we want or eat and drink when we want. We have very little autonomy over our schedules during the working day.

Again, very normal in a workplace.

Having worked as a teacher and in other workplaces, I can say that from my experience, I have generally been able to go to lunch when I want, get a drink when I want and go to the toilet when i need to.

But not when I've been teaching. Because of lessons and all that.

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:17

Yeah except I know lots of people with professional jobs who can go to the toilet when they need to and certainly don’t have to wait 4 hours for the opportunity.

Yes, and there are plenty of professional jobs where you can't. It's really not unusual - long meetings, etc. 4 hours is really not a long time to go without food/the loo!

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:19

Having worked as a teacher and in other workplaces, I can say that from my experience, I have generally been able to go to lunch when I want

Really? Most jobs I've worked in, you can't fit a lunch break in. You grab something and eat at your desk. Did you used to work in fairly low level, secretarial type roles? Anything a bit more professional, and you'll find that people certainly do not just "go to lunch" and certainly not "when [they] want".

Italiandreams · 16/12/2024 18:21

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 06:46

Ah, I see the mistake here, and it is common from teachers. Work hours do not include breaks (e.g. lunch breaks, tea breaks), so when I say I work 9-5, that counts as 7.5 hours, not 8, to account for the 30 mins of the day when I am nipping to the loo, grabbing a snack, etc.

I assume you grab a snack and nip to the loo during your days - you may even grab a 20 min lunch break and take a tea break as well. This time isn't included in your work hours, so you likely work less than 40 hours a week (prob closer to 35), which is entirely reasonable and comparable to most other jobs.

This whole "I work 50 hours a week" from teachers, when they are including all breaks (and sometimes even their commute 😂) is ridiculous - no one else does that. I have heard a teacher on here say "I leave the house at 7am and get home at 6pm, therefore I work 11 hours a day, or 55 hours a week"...where that just describes a normal 37-40 hours a week of actual work, like the rest of us.

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As I work through lunch ( marking while eating my sandwich) how much should I deduct for toilet breaks? That is pretty much the only time I’m not working whilst in the building. My husband is able to have his toilet breaks in work time, lucky him! I get in at 7:45 leave about 5:15 and work at night once the kids are in. I’m not saying other jobs don’t work the same hours or more but please don’t tell me I work less hours than I do!

noblegiraffe · 16/12/2024 18:27

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:19

Having worked as a teacher and in other workplaces, I can say that from my experience, I have generally been able to go to lunch when I want

Really? Most jobs I've worked in, you can't fit a lunch break in. You grab something and eat at your desk. Did you used to work in fairly low level, secretarial type roles? Anything a bit more professional, and you'll find that people certainly do not just "go to lunch" and certainly not "when [they] want".

I’ll tell my DH that, shall I? It’ll certainly be news to him.

Cosyblankets · 16/12/2024 18:32

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:19

Having worked as a teacher and in other workplaces, I can say that from my experience, I have generally been able to go to lunch when I want

Really? Most jobs I've worked in, you can't fit a lunch break in. You grab something and eat at your desk. Did you used to work in fairly low level, secretarial type roles? Anything a bit more professional, and you'll find that people certainly do not just "go to lunch" and certainly not "when [they] want".

How patronising

GluggleJuggle · 16/12/2024 18:37

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 07:31

If I’m lucky, I get 15-30 mins at lunchtime. Break time, I’m either on play ground duty, first aid duty or setting up or clearing away between lessons. Tea or toilet breaks don’t exist because you can’t leave the children alone in the classroom to do this. It’s literally two minutes to run up the corridor for a wee before the bell goes at break or lunch. That 40 hours is accurate when taking into account all the work at home. I also am classed as part time on a 26 hour contract because I work 4 days per week, not the full 5.

Yes, this is pretty normal in most jobs. I am certain that you grab a bite to eat every day, perhaps grab a cup of tea or two and also have a few loo breaks. So let's say 30 mins + within the day. So you wouldn't count that in your working hours.

Most of us in professional roles work as you describe above, grabbing quick bites/cups of tea and running to the loo.

You are on call constantly within that time
Eating your food may well be with children in the dining hall
A drink is brought out to you whilst on playground duty
The loo is just about allowed but you still deal with children on the walk there and the walk back

GluggleJuggle · 16/12/2024 18:38

cakeorwine · 16/12/2024 18:04

Having worked as a teacher and in other workplaces, I can say that from my experience, I have generally been able to go to lunch when I want, get a drink when I want and go to the toilet when i need to.

But not when I've been teaching. Because of lessons and all that.

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Who covers the class whilst you are going to the loo when you need to?

A urologist once told me that when women in the 40s come with bladder incontinence he has 2 questions.
1 about childbirth
2 are you a teacher

Pomegranatecarnage · 16/12/2024 18:40

SaagAloopa · 15/12/2024 08:28

I just don’t have the time or energy as I have primary aged children on my own. but you're doing this during your work hours right? Or are they expecting you to put work in after hours??

It’s impossible to prepare everything you need in work time as 90% of the day in a school you have a class of 30 in front of you! It has to be done in the evening especially when preparing from scratch.

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:40

Having worked as a teacher and in other workplaces, I can say that from my experience, I have generally been able to go to lunch when I want

Really? Most jobs I've worked in, you can't fit a lunch break in. You grab something and eat at your desk. Did you used to work in fairly low level, secretarial type roles? Anything a bit more professional, and you'll find that people certainly do not just "go to lunch" and certainly not "when [they] want".

cakeorwine · 16/12/2024 18:40

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:19

Having worked as a teacher and in other workplaces, I can say that from my experience, I have generally been able to go to lunch when I want

Really? Most jobs I've worked in, you can't fit a lunch break in. You grab something and eat at your desk. Did you used to work in fairly low level, secretarial type roles? Anything a bit more professional, and you'll find that people certainly do not just "go to lunch" and certainly not "when [they] want".

Well in my experience, people do. So maybe you and I have different experiences.

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:41

I’ll tell my DH that, shall I? It’ll certainly be news to him.

I have no idea who your DH is, but you can tell him what you want?

cakeorwine · 16/12/2024 18:42

GluggleJuggle · 16/12/2024 18:38

Who covers the class whilst you are going to the loo when you need to?

A urologist once told me that when women in the 40s come with bladder incontinence he has 2 questions.
1 about childbirth
2 are you a teacher

Edited

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I was talking about my experience in workplaces other than teaching.

In teaching, the opportunity to go to the toilet is restricted

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:42

You are on call constantly within that time

Yes, most of us are on call constantly at work.

cakeorwine · 16/12/2024 18:44

PicturePlace · 16/12/2024 18:42

You are on call constantly within that time

Yes, most of us are on call constantly at work.

Except when we deliberately take time off for lunch.
Away from the desk and the phone and the PC.

Maybe you think lunch is for wimps?