It’s another SIL one!!

[Gracie86]

Are SIL relationships always more difficult than the relationship between a DIL and MIL?!

SIL is 2 years older than me. I’m married to her younger brother. We’ve never really clicked and I find making conversation and just being around her awkward.

She has mental health problems - situational depression based on her marriage breaking up 5 years ago. 5 years on everyone just gives her the green light to be rude and to say inappropriate things.

A couple of months ago it was my birthday. PIL had bought me some very nice Jo Malone bits. She asked what her parents had bought me and then exclaimed that she couldn’t believe they had bought me two gifts and how expensive they were. I was left feeling really awkward. I’m not the quickest at thinking of things to reply with.

On the family WhatsApp she would post pictures of her with DH with captions such as Remember your Roots Little Bro and Big Sis Loves Ya. She has never posted photos of her with the other brother.

Yesterday DH posted some pictures of some work we are having done at home. When I met DH I sold my old flat which is paying for the work. She was quick to reply saying how proud she was of her little bro for working so hard to pay for it all. Our finances are none of her business, but the assumption that I’m not contributing towards the work has really annoyed me. Yes, it’s her and yes I’m probably reading too much into things.

I have and will never stop DH from seeing his sister, but last night something in me snapped and I said I’d had enough of her digs. DH immediately starts defending her and I’m left feeling like the villain. There’s a lot of things she’s said to me over the years which I’ve just put up with, but I’ve said I don’t particularly wish to see her as I’m expected to put up with dig after dig (about my family, about my weight, her asking to borrow huge sums of money, telling our DD things about me which are untrue). I’ve simply had enough and I don’t want this woman in my head. I’ve told DH that he can go spend 2 days after Christmas with her but I’m not going. Of course that’s wrong. I’m just always the villain and I don’t know how to change that narrative.

I would ask your dh how he would feel if his other brothers wife did the same to him, list all the digs she has made at you but coming from his other sil to him

I think you are right to walk away from her, she sounds awful, and MH issues should not be an excuse to be rude

You have a dh problem

Buy your DH some couples counselling sessions for Christmas.

It needs sorting with him first.

Sadly the whole family defend her

That's probably why she's still depressed. No one gets better when a whole family conspires to keep you stuck on a cycle of depression and enabled bad behaviour.

Looks like your choices are to respond to her nonsense, which will probably lead to the family defending her and you being the baddie
Not visit or enage with her, which will lead to you being a baddie but not quite so much
Continuing to put up her her shit and say nothing

I would probably go with the 2nd one, completely drop the rope. Don't bad mouth her but just pretend she doesnt exist

I've been looking to a lot of videos on how to respond to "hurtful" comments, putddowns etc.( I have a DS GF issue.)

Obviously depending on what the comment is, who its directed at, the main response is to flip it back to them,
Something like
Did you mean to say that? That was hurtful, did that come out right? What do you mean by that?

And when it's flipped back, they have a chance to backtrack or they redefine it - you might get a narc response such asjust joking, you're too sensitive (in which case your retort needs to be "that's not funny, be funnier", normal people don't need to make fun of those they love or care about - or they go whole hog and reiterate what they said, it draws attention to others that it wasn't nice. Chances are those other people are enabling the behaviour but doing it every single time something is said, thoughts being that over time the rational people realise and the narc veil slips.

Combine with "grey rock" (I think) where you just do nothing aside from acknowledge her existence, no pleasantries, no conversation aside from a quick glance and Hi, then back to what you're doing.

Get your husband to notice the digs. Each time sil digs repeat it back to her. Have fun.

well i would have immediately put a reply to the WhatsApp post saying how lucky you both were that you had a flat that you could sell to finance the work, or else you wouldn't have been able to afford it.

Digs? Grey rock or (if you are like me and don't care about confrontations with people i don't care about) look her in the eye and ask her to explain. Bonus points if she says something while DH is there and he either ignores or doesn't recognise it's a dig. Keep asking her to explain until she either gives up or has explained 3 times.

Later on tell your DH that you don't have to put up with her shit and that your contact with her is now at an absolute basic minimum.

ETA: i have several SILs. Only one is lovely. The worst one? i just stopped seeing her talking about her or anything. Nobody cared (or if they did, i didn't notice) 2 others did the sly dig stuff. With one i just told her to get to fuck, and cut contact right down to ... actually, never. I only saw her once after that and she pointedly ignored me. I laughed.
Other SIL? i did the "oh that hurt my feelings" "i don't understand please explain" and her DH was defending her. So next time i just burst into (huge fake) tears and said i didn't know why she was always so hurtful... and BAM! i am only in touch with the lovely one and i DGAF about the others, or what they think of me (my DH always backed me up and he barely sees any of them now)

The whole family may defend her but your DH needs to step aside from the family dynamics and support you and have your back that's why you need counselling together to sort it.

Then he deals with SIL bad behaviour to you as and when needed.

Earlier this year I did use the what do you mean by that and the PIL and DH said it was a joke, I was being too sensitive and overreacting. I’m a villain for responding. I really want to go NC but that would mean not seeing the rest of the family who I get on well with. Visiting just them isn’t an option as we live 5 hours away.

How does your DH respond to the digs she makes about your family, about your weight, her asking to borrow huge sums of money and telling your DD things about you which are untrue? Does he just expect you to suck them up?

Ask him how he would feel if a close member of your family made similar digs to him and about him.

Given that she is slagging you off to your own DD, I would certainly limit any time that your DD spends with her.

The problem is the majority of things are said when nobody else is within earshot. They also think my DD has taken out of context what she’s allegedly said and she’s only 5 so misunderstood etc.

The asking to borrow money goes via DH not me. It’s like she thinks I have no say in our money.

So your DH doesn't believe you when you tell him what his sister has said to/about you out of his earshot?

His loyalty appears to lie with his sister rather than you. Tell him that you don't enjoy being in his sister's company because of this and pull back on visits.

Does your DH ever lend her the large amounts of money that she is asking for?

You know, a lot of what you have said seems fairly normal brother and sister stuff. It's normal to have photos with your sibling, it's totally understandable that if you want to borrow money from your sibling, you ask them direct.
The financial set-up between you and your DH is your business, and if the two of you have agreed that you need the. consent of the other before making big spends or loans, that's for you and DH to agree on. SiL is not in the wrong for asking him. He can say that he needs to check it with you, that you operate as a financial team, or whatever he wants to say. It's her brother, and him being married to you doesn't change that. She can ask him whatever she wants and it's up to him to to explain or not. It's not like she thinks you have no say, it's that she asked him to lend her money. It's not the same thing.
I can also envisage the situation where one of my older DC would say that they were proud of the youngest if he was doing grown-up financial stuff, with or without a partner. It's about them seeing the family baby as finally growing up. That's OK, it's not a reflection on you.
However, your DH could clarify things without turning it into a battlefield, " Yes, I couldn't have done it without Gracie, did you know she sold her flat and has covered the cost of the work? I've only put in xyz."
She does sound as if she is jealous of you and possessive of her family. She didn't like seeing her parents spending a lot of money on you as it signifies love/approval and she feels she has to justify her position in the family. You've got a relationship with her little brother, she feels pushed out, and also upset that you have a lovely husband and she doesn't. Your good fortune flags up her situation, in her eyes. If you can cut her some slack it would be a kind thing to do.
If she keeps making snidey comments, agree with her. "Yes, they really are very generous to me, you're lucky to have such lovely parents"; "Yes, I have put on weight recently, how do you stay so slim?" "Yes ,DH does work hard, well we both do, and I was very pleased to have negotiated such a good deal on the sale of my flat".
It's hard work for you, but maybe you can afford to be forgiving here.

agree a bit with @DelphiniumBlue right up to the last paragraph.

there is no need to forgive a rude cunt. Keep your daughter away from her as much as poss, and OP always try to have a 3rd party with you when she speaks to you. but no need to forgive - just ask her to stop being a cunt (use other words) or explain what she means.

But in your shoes? i wouldn't be visiting much at all. Let your DH take care of that.

Unfortunately you need to be prepared for this eventuality, and I'm afraid this is what happened to me. In hindsight, would I have responded differently? In honesty, no. I didn't want a relationship with my SiL: a decision I'd taken for good reason. Others' response to that decision is their call, and if they ostracise you as a consequence, so be it. Some families do appear to take the very trade union-sounding stance of 'one of us, all of us'. I thought it might be possible to have a relationship with the rest of my in-laws without having one with my SiL. This wasn't ultimately possible. She has seen to that, as my MiL let slip one day.

Of course this is hard on DHs, but my DH is aware that if he'd offered one iota of support to me, and told his family that their behaviour to his wife was unacceptable, things might not have deteriorated to this point. Even so, it was probably inevitable. The simple issue is that I am a different kind of personality with very different interests from theirs, and to them, different equals bad.

This has been the only 'blip' in an otherwise strong, happy and trusting marriage, and it's been possible to get past it because we live several hours from them and DH himself is LC. DH and DC now see PiLs without me a few times a year, and even DH no longer has contact with his sister. This was his own decision, taken some 15 or so years after mine. I managed to refrain from saying 'I told you so'.

Your DH can do as he likes but he can't force you to have a relationship with a member of his family that you don't want. Decisions have consequences, and these need to be carefully thought through, but I still don't regret mine. Frankly, I don't think this bickering, unhappy, enabling environment will be much of a loss to you. And if he continues to side with his family of origin over you, he'll have told you something very important about his priorities and where you feature in these. You can then act on this information as you see fit.

Does DH lend her money?

I really don’t think you should have sunk your flat money into the house. How did you and DH pay the deposit? Who pays the mortgage?

I think you need to go NC with her or start answering back every time.

Next time she says she’s proud of DH for making the money say ‘Actually, it’s my money.’

Did it work though, did it shut her up?

Next time say ‘Did you mean to be so rude?’

Answer back every time but don’t swear.

If she keeps making snidey comments, agree with her. "Yes, they really are very generous to me, you're lucky to have such lovely parents"; "Yes, I have put on weight recently, how do you stay so slim?"

@DelphiniumBlue, there's a point at which 'be kind' stops being kindness and begins to demean a person. Being a complete pushover is not a quality most people are apt to admire. It's the sort of behaviour that would make an aggressor despise you more, rather than less.

I don't want to respond too bluntly, but I'm afraid no one but an idiot would make such an assertion as the one you suggest above. It won't cut OP any slack; it won't show concession to any idea that hurt people hurt people, it will do nothing but make her SiL see her as a weak pushover and probably encourage her to up the ante. Especially the comment about the weight. Body-shaming is not okay; it will never be okay, and to respond in agreement to such an assertion would be crazy behaviour.

IMO, not good advice.

She sounds hugely attention-seeking and jealous.

I’d ignore it all. Come off the group chat. Ask DH to share less with them all. Avoid her as much as you can and only see her in group settings.

The most frustrating thing is that your DH is not supporting you.

I’m not sure I’ve anything for her to be jealous about. FIL did once say to me he was upset DD looked like me. I never feel very attractive in their company. They won’t be eating much in the run up to Christmas and she will turn up wearing something showing her figure off whilst I feel rubbish about how I look. I just get so anxious at the thought of being there, DH telling me I’m reading into things. I. All honesty I just want to tell them exactly what’s been said but if I lose it they will just see me as hysterical and overreacting.

Your DH is telling you that you are reading into things because he would rather you be upset than his parents and his sister. How can it be anything other than rude and insulting for FIL to tell you that he was upset that your DD looked like you?

Tell your DH that if he doesn't challenge his parents and his SIL every time they are rude to you, you and DD won't be visiting.

He should feel terrible that you are dreading Christmas.

Thank you. This is what they do: tip toe round her. I did pull FIL up on that and surprise surprise I was being too sensitive.

Maybe you should start insulting your in-laws and when they complain, just tell them that they are being too sensitive.

People like that love to dish it out, but can't take it when anyone does the same to them.