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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be surprised you mumsnetters criticised my ex’s school !!

242 replies

Jumell · 08/12/2024 15:48

My ex went to an all boys’ comprehensive school in London. It’s been slagged off to the ground on here as being rough, not being the school of choice for MC parents, results are dire etc etc .

However he did leave the school in one piece and with 2 CSEs no less!! (OK showing his age a bit!) But the pearl clutchiness about his school on MN is immense !! 🤣 - I didn’t do CSEs btw so don’t truly know how good 2 CSEs is.
He left school in 1986 FYI - I was still a young school kid then, Dunno - was 2 CSEs good for 1986?!

FWIW the comp I went to wasn’t short for ‘comprehensive’ - more compost heap - but that’s possibly the subject of another thread. !

OP posts:
Lifeomars · 08/12/2024 17:50

I am old and went to Grammar school as it was still the 11 plus for all back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth. I was considered "of sub standard intelligence and not really grammar school material" ( I saw this on the reference they wrote for me when I applied to college) and I left with 6 O levels and 2 A levels and this was thought to be poor. For the whole of my adult life I have carried an inner belief that I am thick and this is one of the reasons that I think we should look at the whole person rather than the exams they may or may not have passed.

Owly11 · 08/12/2024 17:52

2 CSEs is really really dire. CSEs are below GCSEs (or O levels as they were then) - if you got the absolute highest grade in a CSE it was equivalent to a scrape of a pass on GCSE. However there were about 9 grades at CSE and if you were likely to get the top grade you would have been sitting the GCSE instead (or as well). Most people took between 5 and 10 CSEs or GCSEs so to only get 2 is shit. It's virtually impossible to fail a CSE.

Jumell · 08/12/2024 17:54

It’s funny when I first met my ex - several decades ago he’d gone on some sort of weekend course and assumed I was interested in this subject - not academic but think more outward bound type thing !!

Anyway my first thought about him was “oh no - he’s going to wang on about this subject now - I’ve seen this kind of thing before.” Anyway, to be fair he didn’t - the convo ended up being much more balanced than I thought and we made a great connection and had several lovely years together 😊 he’s also extremely fit ! 😍

OP posts:
Topseyt123 · 08/12/2024 17:54

What a weird post!

Of course, academia is not everything and many people struggle with exams for a variety of reasons. Also, a lot can change in 40 years at a school. It won't even be run by the same people anymore.

However, 2 CSEs is pretty poor. I don't think you have said what grades he actually got.

I was at school (a bog standard comprehensive) during the GCE O Level and CSE era. GCE O Level stood for General Certificate of Education Ordinary Level and was the highest tier of qualification you could usually take at age 16. The pass grades were A - C if I remember rightly. I got 7 O Levels in 1982. The very first GCSEs were just starting to creep in by then and they were the combining of the GCE O Level and the CSE system. The birth of the system we have today.

Then there was a lower tier which was the CSE, which stood for Certificate of Secondary Education. It was aimed generally at those who were less academic or would struggle with O Levels. I think it was graded 1 - 7 (?). Grade 1 corresponded to O Level grade C, so a pass a Of Level. The rest were just CSE grades. I did take a couple of CSEs in subjects that I had to take but was not great at. They were alongside my O Levels.

Two CSEs was not great even back in 1986 unfortunately, so you are being very disingenuous trying to suggest that it was.

MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/12/2024 17:55

How can you possibly think coming out of school having failed 5 out of 7 exams is good!? Even if you don’t understand the CSE system you must understand that the education system is never going to be set up in a manner where coming out having failed more than twice as many exams as you passed is good. How many GCSEs did you sit and how many did you fail?

Jumell · 08/12/2024 17:57

MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/12/2024 17:55

How can you possibly think coming out of school having failed 5 out of 7 exams is good!? Even if you don’t understand the CSE system you must understand that the education system is never going to be set up in a manner where coming out having failed more than twice as many exams as you passed is good. How many GCSEs did you sit and how many did you fail?

I sat 10 - got 9 C or above and one D

2 years later I did another GCSE in night school and got a B

OP posts:
Skyrainlight · 08/12/2024 17:57

Jumell · 08/12/2024 16:20

He said the school was violent

but we’ve all experienced a bit of rough I’m sure !

You are surprised a violent school is criticised?

JaneJeffer · 08/12/2024 17:59

“You Mumsnetters”? If you’re posting here you’re one too.

I know nothing about this school BTW

MildredSauce · 08/12/2024 17:59

Jumell · 08/12/2024 17:57

I sat 10 - got 9 C or above and one D

2 years later I did another GCSE in night school and got a B

Colin Robinson. What We Do In The Shadows.

If you know, you know....

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 18:04

Lifeomars · 08/12/2024 17:50

I am old and went to Grammar school as it was still the 11 plus for all back in the days when dinosaurs roamed the earth. I was considered "of sub standard intelligence and not really grammar school material" ( I saw this on the reference they wrote for me when I applied to college) and I left with 6 O levels and 2 A levels and this was thought to be poor. For the whole of my adult life I have carried an inner belief that I am thick and this is one of the reasons that I think we should look at the whole person rather than the exams they may or may not have passed.

I hope you know now that you are very definitely not thick. I saw this at my own school. It's natural to judge yourself by the standard of those you know and not realise that if you looked at the whole school population you'd get a very different picture. For a start, only about 25% of the population passed the 11+ so how your Headteacher could think you were of sub-standard intelligence is beyond me. 6 O levels and 2 A levels was really excellent in the 1970s (my era) and was still pretty good in the early 80s. Would easily have got you onto a degree course or equivalent. I totally agree that exam results are not the be all and end all (have said as much above about a branch of my family - not my own children!).

TimeAndTideAndButteredEggsWaitForNoMan · 08/12/2024 18:05

MildredSauce · 08/12/2024 17:41

I'm sorry all, I'm going to cross threads.

So @Jumell if you were second year of GCSE's, it means you are, what, 52? So what on earth were you on about asking what 56 year old men are like, as though they are a different fecking species?

I was in the last year to take O levels and I’m 53, so by my reckoning the OP is 50 or 51 - on this thread, anyway. Certainly old enough to know what 56 year old men are like.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 18:08

Also want to point out that dyslexia was not recognised until the 1980s (I think) and even in the early 90s there were still lots of people questioning if it was a real condtion or something the middle classes had dreamed up to explain why their children weren't doing as well at school as they thought they should. In earlier generations there would have been large numbers of children struggling with basic literacy and numeracy, with minimal support in school. The most severe cases would have been sent to special school and the rest would have had a miserable time being labelled as lazy and thick in mainstream classes of 40+. No wonder many left school with nothing much in the way of qualifications. Some were lucky and from being round pegs in square holes at school would have found a career where their talents and strengths could be used. A lot wouldn't.

Jumell · 08/12/2024 18:09

JaneJeffer · 08/12/2024 17:59

“You Mumsnetters”? If you’re posting here you’re one too.

I know nothing about this school BTW

Sorry I didn’t mean to generalise like that .. was just trying to be sort of lighthearted

OP posts:
WaylandNewt · 08/12/2024 18:09

Jumell · 08/12/2024 15:57

Well as I’ve had relationships surge men with 0 quals I thought that 2 CSEs were .. well ok ..

op, this is why it helps to understand what you creat3 a thread about first, then your better educated to know your information, its like attending a cobra briefing or a security services intelligence update and every question is mmmmmm etc

AlwaysRight1985 · 08/12/2024 18:10

derivativesruletheworld · 08/12/2024 17:47

HOW did you do that??!!

That sounds amazing! Were you the only one, or were there a couple of you who were just head down, ignore the riots, fires, stabbings, verbal?

Thank you :) I was just a little girly swot who kept myself to myself. There were a handful of us who did well enough to go to the local 6th Form and THAT was an entirely different world as we were in with some of the incredibly privileged kids from across town! I think growing up in an incredibly strict household also helped - I'm still a disappointment to my mother than my first grade that wasn't an A was a 2:1 at uni 😂

JaneJeffer · 08/12/2024 18:11

Ah ok @Jumell there isn't too much lightheartedness on here these days unfortunately

MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/12/2024 18:15

Jumell · 08/12/2024 17:57

I sat 10 - got 9 C or above and one D

2 years later I did another GCSE in night school and got a B

And if you’d failed 7 of your exams and only gotten 3 GCSEs would you really think that was pretty good going and the sign of a good school? If not I don’t know how you can think only passing 2 out of 7 exams was good for your ex. Even if it’s a different exam system you must understand the point of exams and qualifications is to be passed!

Another2Cats · 08/12/2024 18:17

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 15:53

The old system of school exams in England (and I think Wales and NI too - different in Scotland) had two types of exams.

GCE stood for General Certificate of Education. There were two levels - O (Ordinary) and A (Advanced) Levels, taken at 16 and 18 respectively. Only a small minority of the school population took A levels. Most kids didn't take O levels either.

CSE - stood for Certificate of Secondary Education. The highest grade you could get in a CSE was equivalent to a bare pass in O level, IIRC. The idea was that they were more accessible and should prevent children leaving with nothing, as most did before then.

Two top grade CSEs in English and Maths - good.

Two bare passes in Woodwork and Needlework - not so great.

"The highest grade you could get in a CSE was equivalent to a bare pass in O level, IIRC."

Yes. I was rubbish at languages so ended up doing CSE French. Fortunately I managed to get a Grade 1 which was counted as the equivalent of a Grade C at O Level.

Why was this fortunate? Well, I applied to UCL and back in those days (and, up until 2020) they still required an O level pass in a foreign language at O level for ALL courses or you were otherwise required to take and pass a foreign language course before you graduated. So, even though I studied a course at UCL similar to the current MORSE course at Warwick I was also required to have a modern foreign language at O Level.
.

"Two bare passes in Woodwork and Needlework..."

That does take me back. I went to an ex-secondary modern and we were the first cohort not to take the 11 plus in our county and the first to go to a comprehensive school.

The school was in a very mixed area in what was then a "New Town" (although it was always a city). It was set up very much to offer practical skills as much as academic skills. There were classrooms full of typewriters, ovens for cookery, lathes and drills for woodwork and metalwork and even, I remember, pouring molten metal into sand casts.

Certainly, everybody was required to do metalwork and woodwork; cookery and needlework in the first to third years (year 7 to 9 nowadays). However, my attempts at both a wooden aeroplane and a stuffed soft toy were equally terrible.

But, despite this, it was very clear that, when given a choice, boys overwhelmingly chose technical drawing and girls chose typing. (by the way, can you even imagine nowadays a school offering technical drawing and typing as subjects in their own right?). Btw, I chose technical drawing and really enjoyed it.

However, things really changed when I got to university. For the first time in my life I came across people who were extremely focused and driven, they knew what they wanted out of life and believed that they could get it.

What was the difference? Well, a lot of the people I met at university came from much more academically focused schools, private schools or just generally from a very upper-middle class background. They certainly hadn't learnt that a good job for a girl was a "nice" office job and they certainly hadn't been taught needlework or typing at school.

For example, in the Hall of Residence where I stayed in the first and third years there were quite a number of students from the various London medical schools.

The one thing that they all had in common was a belief that any job or profession was open to them if they simply tried hard enough - I think that there were actually more women than men studying medicine, even back then, and it simply didn't occur to these girls to think any differently than that she could and would become a doctor. What they also had in common, was a rather different family and school background to mine.

All very different from the sort of environment I had grown up in prior to going to university.

The sort of expectations and role models that you have when younger really can make a huge difference to believing what you are capable of doing. It really can be hugely difficult to even comprehend going to university when you’ve never met anyone who has.

suki1964 · 08/12/2024 18:17

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2024 18:08

Also want to point out that dyslexia was not recognised until the 1980s (I think) and even in the early 90s there were still lots of people questioning if it was a real condtion or something the middle classes had dreamed up to explain why their children weren't doing as well at school as they thought they should. In earlier generations there would have been large numbers of children struggling with basic literacy and numeracy, with minimal support in school. The most severe cases would have been sent to special school and the rest would have had a miserable time being labelled as lazy and thick in mainstream classes of 40+. No wonder many left school with nothing much in the way of qualifications. Some were lucky and from being round pegs in square holes at school would have found a career where their talents and strengths could be used. A lot wouldn't.

There were no such diagnosis when I was at school. I remember when Dyslexia was being first brought to attention and it seemed to be fixated on people who had trouble with reading or math, neither of which I had, I could read and I was pretty good with maths so it didnt seem to apply to me

And then ADHD was given a name, and yet again it was shown as very aggressive children needing to be drugged to the hilt - again not me

Yet Im now officially diagnosed with Dyslexia, ADHD, Autism, Dyspraxia and the latest which they cant officially diagnose as its not recognised here (it is in England ) APD. Im 60 and have only been getting diagnosed since my late 30s , the APD was just flagged this year.

Jumell · 08/12/2024 18:17

MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/12/2024 18:15

And if you’d failed 7 of your exams and only gotten 3 GCSEs would you really think that was pretty good going and the sign of a good school? If not I don’t know how you can think only passing 2 out of 7 exams was good for your ex. Even if it’s a different exam system you must understand the point of exams and qualifications is to be passed!

Edited

My school was terrible and I underperformed- I even put nonsense answers in the actual geography exam !

got 3 As at A level though at an FE college 💪 I worked from Day 1 🙌

OP posts:
tachetastic · 08/12/2024 18:17

Jumell · 08/12/2024 15:48

My ex went to an all boys’ comprehensive school in London. It’s been slagged off to the ground on here as being rough, not being the school of choice for MC parents, results are dire etc etc .

However he did leave the school in one piece and with 2 CSEs no less!! (OK showing his age a bit!) But the pearl clutchiness about his school on MN is immense !! 🤣 - I didn’t do CSEs btw so don’t truly know how good 2 CSEs is.
He left school in 1986 FYI - I was still a young school kid then, Dunno - was 2 CSEs good for 1986?!

FWIW the comp I went to wasn’t short for ‘comprehensive’ - more compost heap - but that’s possibly the subject of another thread. !

I was one of the first years that took GCSEs (1990), so everything was constantly being compared to O-levels and CSEs.

I think the top grade CSE was equivalent to a "C" at GCSE, so if he got two of those then that's good.

tachetastic · 08/12/2024 18:19

tachetastic · 08/12/2024 18:17

I was one of the first years that took GCSEs (1990), so everything was constantly being compared to O-levels and CSEs.

I think the top grade CSE was equivalent to a "C" at GCSE, so if he got two of those then that's good.

Edited

At that time average grades were way lower than they are now and C's were considered good.

MildredSauce · 08/12/2024 18:21

Jumell · 08/12/2024 18:17

My school was terrible and I underperformed- I even put nonsense answers in the actual geography exam !

got 3 As at A level though at an FE college 💪 I worked from Day 1 🙌

You? Nonsense answer? I CANNOT believe you have ever given a nonsense answer to anything🤐

MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/12/2024 18:22

Jumell · 08/12/2024 18:17

My school was terrible and I underperformed- I even put nonsense answers in the actual geography exam !

got 3 As at A level though at an FE college 💪 I worked from Day 1 🙌

So you had a terrible school and still managed to pass 10/10 GCSEs yet you think a school where a student only passed 2/7 exams was good? Where on earth is your logic there?

ExhaustedHousewife · 08/12/2024 18:23

"Slagged down to the ground"
Are you 12,OP?