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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Work very critical of DH, but did not know he has ASD - discriminatory?

158 replies

WhatNext321 · 06/12/2024 11:49

My DH has just had his appraisal at work. He has ASD, though his work doesn't know, as the diagnosis was only formally made in the last few years and at the time DH didn't feel the need to disclose this. His appraisal details what they perceive as his shortfalls in performance in relation to his communication and social interactions. It was all done in a very personal, and in my opinion, harsh, manner. E.g, many examples of "colleague A says this about you" and "colleague B says that about you".

If DH informs work about his diagnosis, can what was written in his appraisal be seen as discriminatory? The tone of the appraisal was very much "we have great concerns regarding your communication, if it doesn't improve, you'll lose your job", but was not explicitly said.

Any thoughts about what DH can do? DH is extremely worried about his job security and is very stressed out. He already works very long hours, seven days a week, most weeks.

OP posts:
Irridescantshimmmer · 06/12/2024 13:58

Edit to 1st paragraph

But risky not to

Jennyoi · 06/12/2024 14:02

Just tell him to tell the truth. Just to take the feedback but say he's had the diagnosis and was still getting his head around it and going forward make a plan of how to navigate his condition with the feedback give, if he keeps positive I think it will be okay. But I don't blame him one bit for worrying to disclose if he was, everyone thinks we live in equality land, no we don't it's still a nightmare in some places, as I said damned if you do, damned if you don't. Some disabilities are apparently more acceptable than others. I know, I have been through it and seen colleagues go though it.

WhatNext321 · 06/12/2024 14:03

RB68 · 06/12/2024 13:13

If it would be reasonable to suspect he has ASD given the behaviours listed and observed it can be construed as discriminatory. Can you imagine if it were an employee with a sight impairment that was obvious but they hadn't declared anything to employer and is then pulled up for not reading a notice or something similar.

Best thing is to let them know asap with official paperwork and see how things pan out - what has he got to lose. Once they know they shouldn't dismiss him because of the issues associated with his disability whether they noticed them before or not as that would be discriminatory once they do know even if behaviours observed before they new. They do sound a little off key in terms of how specific they have been in feedback - talk about land all colleagues in it which the he said she said crap

Thank you for your example of someone with a sight impairment. I suspected DH was on the spectrum very early on in our relationship, which we'd discussed, but as I said, it wasn't until the last few years that he got a formal diagnosis. So, to me, it's fairly obvious that DH has autism, but I guess his colleagues didn't link their issues with his different communication style etc with possible autism.

OP posts:
Jennyoi · 06/12/2024 14:05

Also aside from his disability they sound utterly shit at feedback. Way to just defeat someone, colleague said this and that.

Lunedimiel · 06/12/2024 14:05

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 06/12/2024 11:53

Concerns about his communication will still exist, he needs to work with his team on how to overcome this and find ways (taking in to account his asd) to improve.

they need to support him to do his job but ultimately he needs to be able to do the job

Have a look at the Equality Act. The employer would need to make anticipatory reasonable adjustments if aware of the impaired functioning to avoid substantial disadvantage.

WhatNext321 · 06/12/2024 14:06

@Photodilemmas
"I think either way he needs to look for another job as even with disclosing his ASD if they want to manage him out they will find a way."

That's what I fear.

OP posts:
Jennyoi · 06/12/2024 14:07

Manage out - constructive dismissal. So shit that is still okay.

BlaBlaBla87436780087 · 06/12/2024 14:08

Whether or not he has ASD he still needs to be able to communicate appropriately with others, so although they can take it into consideration, he needs to also work on it from his side.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 06/12/2024 14:10

His workplace are required to make "reasonable adjustments" to his disability but he has to inform them.

The most important thing your DH can do now to tell his employer about his disability, pronto, so that they can make adjustments and support him. It's not as if things have been going well without telling his employer.

He has been keeping his diagnosis from his employer for "the last few years" even though it has been affecting his work. Perhaps he was unaware of the effects of his disability at work but now he has been told, clearly his employer does need to know and he does need to disclose, not necessarily to all his colleagues but to HR and/or his manager.

Are these criticisms factual examples showing how he communicates and how the people he works with feel about it? Because if they are, then he needs to take it on the chin.

LittleRedYarny · 06/12/2024 14:10

OhBling · 06/12/2024 12:05

Everything everyone else has said. What he needs to do now is have a conversation with his manager and disclose the ASD. he also needs to provide some insight into why he didn't disclose it before and proactively ask for support to manage things he finds difficult due to his ASD.

Unfortunately, he made a mistake by not disclosing this. I assume that his issues with social and communication styles have always been there, so it would have been better to disclose promptly. If he has an otherwise good relationship with his manager and the company, hopeflly he can come back from this. But it could be frustrating for the firm if they feel they could have helped him to ensure things didn't get this bad in the first place.

Sorry but I disagree, he didn’t make a mistake not disclosing his ASD and nor does he have to justify why he didn’t.

Disclosure of medical information (except where it can had H&S/legal ramifications) is at the discretion of the individual.

Photodilemmas · 06/12/2024 14:12

WhatNext321 · 06/12/2024 14:06

@Photodilemmas
"I think either way he needs to look for another job as even with disclosing his ASD if they want to manage him out they will find a way."

That's what I fear.

They will unfortunately I've seen it many times before. My current company is absolutely lovely though so there are some good places out there. Encourage him to start looking elsewhere even from just the work/life balance aspect x

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 06/12/2024 14:17

If your DH needs to tell them when he received his diagnosis (does he need to say this it at all?) it would be wiser for your DH to say he wasn't aware of the effects his disability was having until now, and that now he knows via from the appraisal he would like to improve and to have their support to improve.

And also wiser to say nothing about being afraid to disclose. Saying he was afraid could come across as an accusation that the company is hostile, and especially with your DH's communications problems he could easily give the wrong impression.

GiveItAGoMalcom · 06/12/2024 14:21

OP, is there any way you can increase your working hours to give him some time off?

OliphantJones · 06/12/2024 14:21

There is always this attitude in threads like this that the autistic person is always the one at fault when it comes to communication. This is very often not the case at all. Instead it is also partly because communication from neurotypicals is tied up with hidden meanings, unspoken rules, vagueness and an expectation and ignorance that everyone should just know what they mean. Yes the autistic person might use a different communication style that others don’t like but equally the autistic person might find the way they are communicated with utterly infuriating.
It isn’t always the autistic person that “needs to improve”, it’s very often the organisational culture and neurotypical expectations that need to make changes.
I say all this as a late diagnosed autistic person who now has an amazing line manager who advocates for and supports me…..and as a result I am communicated with by others in a much clearer, direct, non vague way. And equally, everyone now understands that if I say something in too blunt a way or that annoys them a) it is never intentional (because I’m actually a very nice person) and b) I’m quite open to them coming and kindly telling me that the way I said that wasn’t great and here’s a better way I could have said it.

BodyKeepingScore · 06/12/2024 14:27

How could they be discriminating against him on the basis of a condition they weren't informed of?

Discrimination is treating a person a certain way specifically because of a particular characteristic. In your DHs case, they didn't know he had ASD so their treatment of him and appraisal could not have been based on that.

YourPunnyReader · 06/12/2024 14:28

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Mill3nnial · 06/12/2024 14:32

How can work make accommodations or even discriminate if they don't know?

WhatNext321 · 06/12/2024 14:32

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Totally agree.

OP posts:
OhBling · 06/12/2024 14:33

WhatNext321 · 06/12/2024 14:03

Thank you for your example of someone with a sight impairment. I suspected DH was on the spectrum very early on in our relationship, which we'd discussed, but as I said, it wasn't until the last few years that he got a formal diagnosis. So, to me, it's fairly obvious that DH has autism, but I guess his colleagues didn't link their issues with his different communication style etc with possible autism.

The problem is that the company is not allowed to make adjustments or ask others to make adjustments based on a "suspicion". So he has to tell them to get any support of this sort. He had every right NOT to tell them, and I understand why he didn't, but I still think it was a mistake that he needs to now dial back on.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 06/12/2024 14:41

GiveItAGoMalcom · 06/12/2024 14:21

OP, is there any way you can increase your working hours to give him some time off?

Don't. Unless all his colleagues are working 24/7 this is a problem for the OP's DH to resolve between himself, his employer and his colleagues. The OP should not work herself to death because her husband doesn't know how to set boundaries at work.

WhatNext321 · 06/12/2024 14:42

OhBling · 06/12/2024 14:33

The problem is that the company is not allowed to make adjustments or ask others to make adjustments based on a "suspicion". So he has to tell them to get any support of this sort. He had every right NOT to tell them, and I understand why he didn't, but I still think it was a mistake that he needs to now dial back on.

DH did not expect work to make adjustments, but also did not expect work to criticise all that he has difficulties with in such a harsh way.

OP posts:
OhBling · 06/12/2024 14:45

Did these negative comments come completely out of the blue? I may have misunderstood as I got the impression he'd struggled from the start. If they came out of the blue, then yes, that's not okay, ASD or not. Performance appraisals should not have huge surprises in them and if there were concerns about his behaviour or communication it should dhave been flagged earlier.

However, it alsos ounds like they're changing the appraisal process so this could be teething problems with this decision?

Nonetheless, if it's come out of the blue, then I don'tblame him for being upset. I would still encourage him to disclose asap and to ask for suppoert in making adjustments.

And, as I said earlier, I would also bes suggesting he consider whether the workload and its impact on him mightbe exacerbated by his ASD.

WhatNext321 · 06/12/2024 14:50

OliphantJones · 06/12/2024 14:21

There is always this attitude in threads like this that the autistic person is always the one at fault when it comes to communication. This is very often not the case at all. Instead it is also partly because communication from neurotypicals is tied up with hidden meanings, unspoken rules, vagueness and an expectation and ignorance that everyone should just know what they mean. Yes the autistic person might use a different communication style that others don’t like but equally the autistic person might find the way they are communicated with utterly infuriating.
It isn’t always the autistic person that “needs to improve”, it’s very often the organisational culture and neurotypical expectations that need to make changes.
I say all this as a late diagnosed autistic person who now has an amazing line manager who advocates for and supports me…..and as a result I am communicated with by others in a much clearer, direct, non vague way. And equally, everyone now understands that if I say something in too blunt a way or that annoys them a) it is never intentional (because I’m actually a very nice person) and b) I’m quite open to them coming and kindly telling me that the way I said that wasn’t great and here’s a better way I could have said it.

Yes, the onus is on the person with ASD to 'improve their communication & social skills'. My DH does work on his communication. This was noted in his appraisal, but work basically said that based on his colleagues' comments (seemingly taken as fact), any work he'd put towards his communication hadn't been effective. It's very hard to work on an impairment that forms part of one's disability...you wouldn't ask someone in a wheelchair to run faster...

OP posts:
GiveItAGoMalcom · 06/12/2024 14:51

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 06/12/2024 14:41

Don't. Unless all his colleagues are working 24/7 this is a problem for the OP's DH to resolve between himself, his employer and his colleagues. The OP should not work herself to death because her husband doesn't know how to set boundaries at work.

I was assuming (probably wrongly) that they need the extra income, so thought she might be able to share the burden a bit.

GiveItAGoMalcom · 06/12/2024 14:53

Also OP, when he receives his copy of his appraisal, can he print it out for you to look at?

Perhaps he's interpreted some of it differently to how you might?